Opposition fans back from the game - 24/25 page 225 onwards

[Wycombe Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

[Snowflake Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

Yeah, that's guess, especially given what Dirk said about refs hating dealing with indirect kicks in the box. That was his excuse not to give it, but didn’t want to create a bigger fuss by awarding a freekick for something that would never be given under any other circumstances.

[Crusader Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

That’s not logical. If Mbengue was fouled you give the foul, you don’t confuse things by appearing to not punish another offence and giving a significantly less advantageous position to the defence.
He could have decided there was no intention to play the ball to the keeper and therefore there was no offence, but without seeing it it’s hard to analyse.

[Crusader Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

Yeah, that's guess, especially given what Dirk said about refs hating dealing with indirect kicks in the box. That was his excuse not to give it, but didn’t want to create a bigger fuss by awarding a freekick for something that would never be given under any other circumstances.

If refs hated giving kicks for things that lead to chaotic situations in the box then they would never award corners.
At this level if a ref bottles making decisions like that they will be demoted. It might be a slightly awkward situation to ref but it’s no more than that and no referee with any self respect will actually duck out of penalising an offence for those reasons.
I get that refs might not like the indirect free kick in the area scenario but no way will they let players get away with back passes as a result.

[Snowflake Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

That’s not logical. If Mbengue was fouled you give the foul, you don’t confuse things by appearing to not punish another offence and giving a significantly less advantageous position to the defence.
He could have decided there was no intention to play the ball to the keeper and therefore there was no offence, but without seeing it it’s hard to analyse.

There is absolutely no chance Mbengue wasn't trying to pass to Pereira. It was stone cold clear.

[Snowflake Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

Yeah, that's guess, especially given what Dirk said about refs hating dealing with indirect kicks in the box. That was his excuse not to give it, but didn’t want to create a bigger fuss by awarding a freekick for something that would never be given under any other circumstances.

If refs hated giving kicks for things that lead to chaotic situations in the box then they would never award corners.
At this level if a ref bottles making decisions like that they will be demoted. It might be a slightly awkward situation to ref but it’s no more than that and no referee with any self respect will actually duck out of penalising an offence for those reasons.
I get that refs might not like the indirect free kick in the area scenario but no way will they let players get away with back passes as a result.

The evidence is rather against you on this one, seeing as the referee failed to give the most obvious backpass going in our last game.

[Wycombe Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

That’s not logical. If Mbengue was fouled you give the foul, you don’t confuse things by appearing to not punish another offence and giving a significantly less advantageous position to the defence.
He could have decided there was no intention to play the ball to the keeper and therefore there was no offence, but without seeing it it’s hard to analyse.

Perfectly logical.....and they play advantage numerous times throughout a match, its at their discretion.

Also I'm not sure why you think Pereira having the ball in his hands is less advantageous to us than having a free kick 5 yards away. If anything it is more advantageous, as Pereira can move around, throw it, or kick it, rather than it being a fixed kick from the floor.

[JedMaxwell]

It seems to me that this latest bit of conversation is predicated on the assumption that refs at this level are a) competent and b) consistent.

I feel for the refs outside the Premier League. They are all doing their best but are largely out of their depth and have been promoted too quickly due to VAR and the general dearth of good officials elsewhere. There's a group in the Prem who are good, but otherwise it's slim pickings.

Even in the Prem they are getting hamstrung by the insistence on using VAR too much and the bizarre interpretation/application of certain laws.

[Crusader Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

That’s not logical. If Mbengue was fouled you give the foul, you don’t confuse things by appearing to not punish another offence and giving a significantly less advantageous position to the defence.
He could have decided there was no intention to play the ball to the keeper and therefore there was no offence, but without seeing it it’s hard to analyse.

Perfectly logical.....and they play advantage numerous times throughout a match, its at their discretion.

Also I'm not sure why you think Pereira having the ball in his hands is less advantageous to us than having a free kick 5 yards away. If anything it is more advantageous, as Pereira can move around, throw it, or kick it, rather than it being a fixed kick from the floor.

The concept of allowing someone to commit an offence as a form of advantage is a bit weird ! If Mbengue had handled the ball would you still suggest it could be ignored as a form of advantage ?

The keeper with the ball in his hand can be closed down by the opposition and play effectively continues, a free kick in the area means the opposition has to retreat at least 10 yards and allows the defence to control the situation.
But the point remains not penalising a clear pass back isn’t a way of giving advantage after a previous offence. You could play advantage to,the attack if the keeper spilled the ball etc.

[Hound]

I’m guessing the ref thought the Brum lad had given Mbengue a shove and therefore the pass back wasn’t necessarily his intention.

But in reality it was a pretty clear pass back and a cock up from the ref

Not sure it’s been mentioned but JP who had a decent game otherwise - not too sure what he was thinking - had plenty of time to whack the ball away rather than risk giving away the foul.

[Wycombe Royal]

That’s not logical. If Mbengue was fouled you give the foul, you don’t confuse things by appearing to not punish another offence and giving a significantly less advantageous position to the defence.
He could have decided there was no intention to play the ball to the keeper and therefore there was no offence, but without seeing it it’s hard to analyse.

Perfectly logical.....and they play advantage numerous times throughout a match, its at their discretion.

Also I'm not sure why you think Pereira having the ball in his hands is less advantageous to us than having a free kick 5 yards away. If anything it is more advantageous, as Pereira can move around, throw it, or kick it, rather than it being a fixed kick from the floor.

The concept of allowing someone to commit an offence as a form of advantage is a bit weird ! If Mbengue had handled the ball would you still suggest it could be ignored as a form of advantage ?

The keeper with the ball in his hand can be closed down by the opposition and play effectively continues, a free kick in the area means the opposition has to retreat at least 10 yards and allows the defence to control the situation.
But the point remains not penalising a clear pass back isn’t a way of giving advantage after a previous offence. You could play advantage to,the attack if the keeper spilled the ball etc.

What are you going on about? I'm said May (he is a Birmingham player" leaning on Mbengue (a Reading player) - therefore instead of giving Reading a foul he allowed play to continue as Pereira had the ball in his hands.

I guess if you were a ref you'd be blowing up for every niggly little foul rather than trying to let the game flow.

[Crusader Royal]

Yeah, that's guess, especially given what Dirk said about refs hating dealing with indirect kicks in the box. That was his excuse not to give it, but didn’t want to create a bigger fuss by awarding a freekick for something that would never be given under any other circumstances.

If refs hated giving kicks for things that lead to chaotic situations in the box then they would never award corners.
At this level if a ref bottles making decisions like that they will be demoted. It might be a slightly awkward situation to ref but it’s no more than that and no referee with any self respect will actually duck out of penalising an offence for those reasons.
I get that refs might not like the indirect free kick in the area scenario but no way will they let players get away with back passes as a result.

The evidence is rather against you on this one, seeing as the referee failed to give the most obvious backpass going in our last game.

Not sure one example is enough of a sample, and we’ve got no idea what the ref’s thought process was. Unless you are convinced he thought ‘ooo, I hate these tricky indirect free kicks, I’ll just ignore that obvious offence’

[Crusader Royal]

Perfectly logical.....and they play advantage numerous times throughout a match, its at their discretion.

Also I'm not sure why you think Pereira having the ball in his hands is less advantageous to us than having a free kick 5 yards away. If anything it is more advantageous, as Pereira can move around, throw it, or kick it, rather than it being a fixed kick from the floor.

The concept of allowing someone to commit an offence as a form of advantage is a bit weird ! If Mbengue had handled the ball would you still suggest it could be ignored as a form of advantage ?

The keeper with the ball in his hand can be closed down by the opposition and play effectively continues, a free kick in the area means the opposition has to retreat at least 10 yards and allows the defence to control the situation.
But the point remains not penalising a clear pass back isn’t a way of giving advantage after a previous offence. You could play advantage to,the attack if the keeper spilled the ball etc.

What are you going on about? I'm said May (he is a Birmingham player" leaning on Mbengue (a Reading player) - therefore instead of giving Reading a foul he allowed play to continue as Pereira had the ball in his hands.

I guess if you were a ref you'd be blowing up for every niggly little foul rather than trying to let the game flow.

If you are going to pick and chose the bits of the action to suit you then it’s a pointless discussion !

The consensus seems to be it was a really obvious pass back.

You suggest that possibly there was a foul on Mbengue, the idea that he only passed it back because he was pushed has been ruled out by Ian

So the ref could penalise the pass back, which he didn’t. Or he could penalise the push, which he didn’t. He can’t offset the push and the pass back and do nothing ( although obviously he did do nothing )

So your issue is with those stating it was the clearest possible pass back…..

[Snowflake Royal]

If refs hated giving kicks for things that lead to chaotic situations in the box then they would never award corners.
At this level if a ref bottles making decisions like that they will be demoted. It might be a slightly awkward situation to ref but it’s no more than that and no referee with any self respect will actually duck out of penalising an offence for those reasons.
I get that refs might not like the indirect free kick in the area scenario but no way will they let players get away with back passes as a result.

The evidence is rather against you on this one, seeing as the referee failed to give the most obvious backpass going in our last game.

Not sure one example is enough of a sample, and we’ve got no idea what the ref’s thought process was. Unless you are convinced he thought ‘ooo, I hate these tricky indirect free kicks, I’ll just ignore that obvious offence’

Well I'm happy piecing Dirk's admission from a ref, with observed difficulties managing indirect freekicks, the fact they're practically never given, and a mindblowingly obvious one not being given a few days ago, with Occom's Razor.

[Snowflake Royal]

The concept of allowing someone to commit an offence as a form of advantage is a bit weird ! If Mbengue had handled the ball would you still suggest it could be ignored as a form of advantage ?

The keeper with the ball in his hand can be closed down by the opposition and play effectively continues, a free kick in the area means the opposition has to retreat at least 10 yards and allows the defence to control the situation.
But the point remains not penalising a clear pass back isn’t a way of giving advantage after a previous offence. You could play advantage to,the attack if the keeper spilled the ball etc.

What are you going on about? I'm said May (he is a Birmingham player" leaning on Mbengue (a Reading player) - therefore instead of giving Reading a foul he allowed play to continue as Pereira had the ball in his hands.

I guess if you were a ref you'd be blowing up for every niggly little foul rather than trying to let the game flow.

If you are going to pick and chose the bits of the action to suit you then it’s a pointless discussion !

The consensus seems to be it was a really obvious pass back.

You suggest that possibly there was a foul on Mbengue, the idea that he only passed it back because he was pushed has been ruled out by Ian

So the ref could penalise the pass back, which he didn’t. Or he could penalise the push, which he didn’t. He can’t offset the push and the pass back and do nothing ( although obviously he did do nothing )

So your issue is with those stating it was the clearest possible pass back…..

I haven’t said anything of the sort.

In fact I agreed with Wycombe. Not that Wycombe said what you claim.

Not really sure why you obviously want to be a nob about it.

It's very clear Mbengue was playing a pass back. May clearly gave Mbengue a gentle nudge, (the sort that basically never gets penalised) which put him a little off balance and may have contributed to the pass back to be hit soft and well short.

Which is why Pereira had to rush out to it, though really didn’t need to pick it up.

[Crusader Royal]

Not really sure why you obviously want to be a nob about it.

Let’s be honest it’s you descending into silly insults that destroys any attempts at discussion on here.

[Snowflake Royal]

Not really sure why you obviously want to be a nob about it.

Let’s be honest it’s you descending into silly insults that destroys any attempts at discussion on here.

I'm afraid I don’t have a lot of time for people making up what I've said for dishonest pointless arguments.

[Wycombe Royal]

I think Crusader had a few two many bevvies at lunch today.

I merely suggested that the ref might have seen a foul on Mbengue and let it go as the ball went back to Pereira. If that is the case, and I am only suggesting it was, then whether Mbengue intentionally passed it back is irrelevant.

It's hardly a suggestion worthy of an argument, but hey ho......

[Esteban]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

The whole problem is the ref didn't signal anything. It's either a foul by May on Mbengue and a freekick to us, or you signal to play an advantage. OR it's a blatant backpass that Pereira rather stupidly fell on, instead of booting it safely out of play, which he had time to do.

The ref bottled the decision and did nothing, which just made things worse.

[Wycombe Royal]

I wonder if it wasn't given because the ref deemed that May had fouled Mbengue when he leant on him making him miskick the ball. Therefore he played advantage because the ball went back to Pereira.

I don't remember seeing what the ref signalled when the incident happened.

The whole problem is the ref didn't signal anything. It's either a foul by May on Mbengue and a freekick to us, or you signal to play an advantage. OR it's a blatant backpass that Pereira rather stupidly fell on, instead of booting it safely out of play, which he had time to do.

The ref bottled the decision and did nothing, which just made things worse.

In my original suggestion I said that I didn't see if the ref signalled anything. However, he must have signalled something to Pereira otherwise he wouldn't have picked the ball up.