Opposition fans back from the game - 24/25 page 225 onwards

[Snowflake Royal]

I noticed some Wigan fans commenting on us in a positive light, asking why we've been able to build a side capable of looking good at this level and getting the most out of our players - whereas they haven't.

Obviously the academy system helps, but absolutely the coaching staff has to be commended for our relative success - especially following the situation we were in twelve months ago.

Great to see people outside our fanbase pick up on that.

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

[Royals and Racers]

I noticed some Wigan fans commenting on us in a positive light, asking why we've been able to build a side capable of looking good at this level and getting the most out of our players - whereas they haven't.

Obviously the academy system helps, but absolutely the coaching staff has to be commended for our relative success - especially following the situation we were in twelve months ago.

Great to see people outside our fanbase pick up on that.

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

Lot of credit to Brian Carey.

[Sutekh]

I noticed some Wigan fans commenting on us in a positive light, asking why we've been able to build a side capable of looking good at this level and getting the most out of our players - whereas they haven't.

Obviously the academy system helps, but absolutely the coaching staff has to be commended for our relative success - especially following the situation we were in twelve months ago.

Great to see people outside our fanbase pick up on that.

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

Lot of credit to Brian Carey.

All that and Savage too !

[Clyde1998]

I noticed some Wigan fans commenting on us in a positive light, asking why we've been able to build a side capable of looking good at this level and getting the most out of our players - whereas they haven't.

Obviously the academy system helps, but absolutely the coaching staff has to be commended for our relative success - especially following the situation we were in twelve months ago.

Great to see people outside our fanbase pick up on that.

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

It just shows how you don't need to spend money for success - assuming you can find players who fit what you want to do for frees.

It obviously took us four or so months to completely get bedded in, but we very close to the play-offs in our form following the Shrewsbury game. We've maintained a similar situation this season - without being able to strengthen further after losing players.

Imagine where we'd be this season if we'd been able to bring in three or four additional free transfers. We're also benefitting from our relatively strong academy system at this level, like we did in the Championship.

Ironically, being restricted in what we can do has probably helped us. We have to make every transfer work and have to justify signing someone. When we could spend a lot of money, there was little restriction as to what we could do and that resulted in poor deals being made, with the squad growing too large.

[stealthpapes]

I noticed some Wigan fans commenting on us in a positive light, asking why we've been able to build a side capable of looking good at this level and getting the most out of our players - whereas they haven't.

Obviously the academy system helps, but absolutely the coaching staff has to be commended for our relative success - especially following the situation we were in twelve months ago.

Great to see people outside our fanbase pick up on that.

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

Fairly sure we paid something for Savage.

Him, Elliott and Bindon are undisclosed on the wikipedia page, fwiw

Not disagreeing with sentiment of post, btw, first time in an age we appeared to have a plan for what players and of what type, we wanted to get.

[From Despair To Where?]

Pretty sure Savage was a free with hefty sell on and a cheap buy back clauses.

[Snowflake Royal]

I noticed some Wigan fans commenting on us in a positive light, asking why we've been able to build a side capable of looking good at this level and getting the most out of our players - whereas they haven't.

Obviously the academy system helps, but absolutely the coaching staff has to be commended for our relative success - especially following the situation we were in twelve months ago.

Great to see people outside our fanbase pick up on that.

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

Fairly sure we paid something for Savage.

Him, Elliott and Bindon are undisclosed on the wikipedia page, fwiw

Not disagreeing with sentiment of post, btw, first time in an age we appeared to have a plan for what players and of what type, we wanted to get.

If we did we would have been in breach of a transfer fee embargo.

[Clyde1998]

Pretty sure Savage was a free with hefty sell on and a cheap buy back clauses.

I think Elliott was the same. Bindon may have been nominal training fees we had to cover.

[stealthpapes]

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

Fairly sure we paid something for Savage.

Him, Elliott and Bindon are undisclosed on the wikipedia page, fwiw

Not disagreeing with sentiment of post, btw, first time in an age we appeared to have a plan for what players and of what type, we wanted to get.

If we did we would have been in breach of a transfer fee embargo.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66174548

lifted mid July 2023

https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/cx0wln3wp43o

signs late July 2023

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66314265

oh for fucks sake

again, get the point, but the embargo is not one, well-defined, thing.
Happy to settle at 'we did a deal with United'.

[Sutekh]

Pretty sure Savage was a free with hefty sell on and a cheap buy back clauses.

I think Elliott was the same. Bindon may have been nominal training fees we had to cover.

We did not pay anything for Savage or Elliott as the club was and still is embargoed. Both players joined on a free with Utd and Chelsea being happy with the clauses mentioned being in the player’s contracts. Was hoping Reading could do it again this season but the owner seems to have ensured there’s no chance of even that.

[WestYorksRoyal]

I noticed some Wigan fans commenting on us in a positive light, asking why we've been able to build a side capable of looking good at this level and getting the most out of our players - whereas they haven't.

Obviously the academy system helps, but absolutely the coaching staff has to be commended for our relative success - especially following the situation we were in twelve months ago.

Great to see people outside our fanbase pick up on that.

You've got say sunmer 23 was an incredible window for us. We didn’t spend a penny on transfer fees, and were in and our of embargos, and yet we signed three absolutely proven quality League One players in Wing, Knibbs and Smith, plus the up and coming Elliott and absolute diamond Bindon, to complement our excellent Academy production line

I can't remember the last time we made such good summer signings for our level.

It just shows how you don't need to spend money for success - assuming you can find players who fit what you want to do for frees.

It obviously took us four or so months to completely get bedded in, but we very close to the play-offs in our form following the Shrewsbury game. We've maintained a similar situation this season - without being able to strengthen further after losing players.

Imagine where we'd be this season if we'd been able to bring in three or four additional free transfers. We're also benefitting from our relatively strong academy system at this level, like we did in the Championship.

Ironically, being restricted in what we can do has probably helped us. We have to make every transfer work and have to justify signing someone. When we could spend a lot of money, there was little restriction as to what we could do and that resulted in poor deals being made, with the squad growing too large.

Operating like we've been forced to sets a real foundation, but being in a position to make a handful of bigger signings is a difference maker, and perhaps we'd be competing for automatic had we been able to. All our successful teams had a couple of big signings, most obviously Roberts who took us from play off contenders to champions.

[Snowflake Royal]

Fairly sure we paid something for Savage.

Him, Elliott and Bindon are undisclosed on the wikipedia page, fwiw

Not disagreeing with sentiment of post, btw, first time in an age we appeared to have a plan for what players and of what type, we wanted to get.

If we did we would have been in breach of a transfer fee embargo.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66174548

lifted mid July 2023

https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/cx0wln3wp43o

signs late July 2023

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66314265

oh for fucks sake

again, get the point, but the embargo is not one, well-defined, thing.
Happy to settle at 'we did a deal with United'.

I really can't be arsed to go find the details but my recollection is there were different levels of embargo.

There were on and off we can't sign anyone at all embargos. And a long running we can't pay any transfer fees, loan fees or compensation fees embargo. It's possible that came later than I thought, but I certainly remember us going into the close seeing knowing we couldn't pay a penny for some time.

It's all academic though, as whether we spent £0 or bugger all, the point is the same, as you were on board with

[Dirk Gently]

It just shows how you don't need to spend money for success - assuming you can find players who fit what you want to do for frees.

The one thing that we've had that most managers don't get is time. Our situation has meant Selles has had time to build this team as a unit, because "success" for us is defined as still existing and not plummeting down too many divisions.

At many other clubs, the fans' and owners' demands for "SUCCESS - RIGHT NOW!!!!" wouldn't have let us have the time to bed these players in and let them develop together.

Most other managers have money to spend for instant success (to one degree or another) but not enough time if it doesn't all click straight away,

[Snowflake Royal]

It just shows how you don't need to spend money for success - assuming you can find players who fit what you want to do for frees.

The one thing that we've had that most managers don't get is time. Our situation has meant Selles has had time to build this team as a unit, because "success" for us is defined as still existing and not plummeting down too many divisions.

At many other clubs, the fans' and owners' demands for "SUCCESS - RIGHT NOW!!!!" wouldn't have let us have the time to bed these players in and let them develop together.

Most other managers have money to spend for instant success (to one degree or another) but not enough time if it doesn't all click straight away,

Yeah, anywhere else in the FL Selles would have gone before Xmas last year. And any other year for us in the last 10-15 years he'd also have gone.

[Dirk Gently]

It just shows how you don't need to spend money for success - assuming you can find players who fit what you want to do for frees.

The one thing that we've had that most managers don't get is time. Our situation has meant Selles has had time to build this team as a unit, because "success" for us is defined as still existing and not plummeting down too many divisions.

At many other clubs, the fans' and owners' demands for "SUCCESS - RIGHT NOW!!!!" wouldn't have let us have the time to bed these players in and let them develop together.

Most other managers have money to spend for instant success (to one degree or another) but not enough time if it doesn't all click straight away,

Yeah, anywhere else in the FL Selles would have gone before Xmas last year. And any other year for us in the last 10-15 years he'd also have gone.

Having said that, in the summer of 2005 Coppell & Downes were concerned their time was up after failing to reach the play-offs) after being at the club for the best part of two seasons. Unlike most other owners, SJM gave them more time - and it all clicked that summer.

[Snowflake Royal]

The one thing that we've had that most managers don't get is time. Our situation has meant Selles has had time to build this team as a unit, because "success" for us is defined as still existing and not plummeting down too many divisions.

At many other clubs, the fans' and owners' demands for "SUCCESS - RIGHT NOW!!!!" wouldn't have let us have the time to bed these players in and let them develop together.

Most other managers have money to spend for instant success (to one degree or another) but not enough time if it doesn't all click straight away,

Yeah, anywhere else in the FL Selles would have gone before Xmas last year. And any other year for us in the last 10-15 years he'd also have gone.

Having said that, in the summer of 2005 Coppell & Downes were concerned their time was up after failing to reach the play-offs) after being at the club for the best part of two seasons. Unlike most other owners, SJM gave them more time - and it all clicked that summer.

I think it should always be 2 - 3 seasons if you're falling a little short, but no real consequences to failure. Like finishing top 10 when you're trying to get promoted or 13-16 when you're trying to build toward a PO push. Even 15 - 19 if the goal is just to stay up.

And if you're expecting to be fighting relegation, being in the relegation zone or going down shouldn't be an automatic sacking.

But if you're expecting to be comfortable and you're looking at relegation, or you're clearly going backwards, that's when the knife can be plunged in within the first 18 months.

[Clyde1998]

Yeah, anywhere else in the FL Selles would have gone before Xmas last year. And any other year for us in the last 10-15 years he'd also have gone.

Having said that, in the summer of 2005 Coppell & Downes were concerned their time was up after failing to reach the play-offs) after being at the club for the best part of two seasons. Unlike most other owners, SJM gave them more time - and it all clicked that summer.

I think it should always be 2 - 3 seasons if you're falling a little short, but no real consequences to failure. Like finishing top 10 when you're trying to get promoted or 13-16 when you're trying to build toward a PO push. Even 15 - 19 if the goal is just to stay up.

And if you're expecting to be fighting relegation, being in the relegation zone or going down shouldn't be an automatic sacking.

But if you're expecting to be comfortable and you're looking at relegation, or you're clearly going backwards, that's when the knife can be plunged in within the first 18 months.

I recall seeing the average manager of a promoted Championship club (without parachute payments) was at the club for 2.5 years prior to promotion. It's almost as if a manager needs time to build a team he wants. Obviously there's caveats when there's a serious gulf between expectations and reality, as you've mentioned.

[Dirk Gently]

Having said that, in the summer of 2005 Coppell & Downes were concerned their time was up after failing to reach the play-offs) after being at the club for the best part of two seasons. Unlike most other owners, SJM gave them more time - and it all clicked that summer.

I think it should always be 2 - 3 seasons if you're falling a little short, but no real consequences to failure. Like finishing top 10 when you're trying to get promoted or 13-16 when you're trying to build toward a PO push. Even 15 - 19 if the goal is just to stay up.

And if you're expecting to be fighting relegation, being in the relegation zone or going down shouldn't be an automatic sacking.

But if you're expecting to be comfortable and you're looking at relegation, or you're clearly going backwards, that's when the knife can be plunged in within the first 18 months.

I recall seeing the average manager of a promoted Championship club (without parachute payments) was at the club for 2.5 years prior to promotion. It's almost as if a manager needs time to build a team he wants. Obviously there's caveats when there's a serious gulf between expectations and reality, as you've mentioned.

Now tell me what the average tenure is for a Championship manager who used to be a top-flight "big name" Premier League international.