Accepting defeat

[Winchester Royal]

The realms of probability suggest that this season is going to be a struggle. I know a Watford supporter who went to most of their games last time they went up in the Premiership. The supporters knew it was going to be a struggle and made every game like their Cup Final.
We have achieved something really good here - whatever happens let's get behing the Royals and make our status of being no 13 valid. We have the capacity to be an extra man on the pitch and reading are going to need us next season. Lets get behind our team, be heard and enjoy our team.. Be loud - be heard, but above all be proud.

Well said.
If people expect us to go out and rip up trees they're mistaken, and will be dissapointed.
We need to enjoy the event that the Premiership is.

[holsgrove breaks a leg]

No matter how we perform we are always going to get people moaning that 'Coppell should have done this, Coppell should of done that'.quote]

Exactly, and thats what HNA is for.... Complaining, moaning, talking nonsense. Being positive, being negative, stressing about lack of signings, complaining about poor performances.

Everyone backs the team to the hilt on a Saturday Afternoon regardless of what gets said.

And whose to say that being positive is always the best way to motivate the team.

I remember standing on the South Bank and if Gilkes was standing still, he would get lambasted by the angry South Bank. Next minute Gilkes was like a rocket down the left flank!

Being nasty can help players raise their games!

If Kitson thinks the fans don't rate him and think he's gonna struggle in the Prem, then it gives him a motivation to prove everyone wrong and make us shut the hell up!

Why is being positive all the time always the best way?

Piling on pressure and being nasty works as well. Thats how Fergie runs affairs, the old hair dryer treatment!

Incorrect - Gilkes would get motivated by ther South Bank cheering him on - which is why he always played better in the second half

I totally agree there- Gilkes thrived on the 2nd half support!

And an answer to the question - 'Why is being positive all the time always the best way?'. I think you would have to ask Coppell that and then find out why he was acheived so much here. Coppell doesnt operate as a manager in the hairdryer mode- his calm and 'arm round the shoulder' approach i think has actually benefitted players who have gone on to another level, and these were the same players that were playing for Pards who has (as we all know!) a totally different approach. With this in mind why should we as fans berate the efforts of players(ala Oster) in what will be a thoroughly more testing season??. Ok im not saying to be devoid of criticism- I have a moan at the game when players dont play up to standard, make silly mistakes etc. The problem I have is when these things are picked up on and scrutinised by pockets of fans which cause the escalation of doom and gloom at games. Ever since Reading began a more or less succesful journey from 1994 I think it has brought an increasing amount of fickleness within the support base.

[holsgrove breaks a leg]

The realms of probability suggest that this season is going to be a struggle. I know a Watford supporter who went to most of their games last time they went up in the Premiership. The supporters knew it was going to be a struggle and made every game like their Cup Final.
We have achieved something really good here - whatever happens let's get behing the Royals and make our status of being no 13 valid. We have the capacity to be an extra man on the pitch and reading are going to need us next season. Lets get behind our team, be heard and enjoy our team.. Be loud - be heard, but above all be proud.

Well said.
If people expect us to go out and rip up trees they're mistaken, and will be dissapointed.
We need to enjoy the event that the Premiership is.

Yeah well said. My mate at work is a Watford fan too (and a nephew of Ray Lewington!). He was saying very much the same thing. For Reading fans Its not easy after 12 years of relative success, but we have to go back to being a smaller fish in a bigger pond for now because like it or not, that is what we have become- though that still doesnt stop we moaning that we desperately need a quality CB!

[Boston Royal]

I would have thought that most fans are intelligent enough to realise that we are going into the toughest league in the world where the quality gap between divisions has got to be the widest on earth......

I don't think RFC fans will be negative if we start losing games...

If you look at similar clubs who have been promoted with similar expectations as ourselves they certainly weren't complaining when they were struggling. I'm talking about the likes of Barnsley, Palace and Norwich in recent years, Watford etc.

I would hope that RFC fans don't have their heads stuck so far up their jacksies that the expectation is to achieve Europe or comfortably stay up.

We got a massive battle on next season and we have a high chance of getting relegated again. According to the bookies the third highest chance of going down! I'm realistic about what we can achieve. For me, survival = success.

Relegation, I can live with. I've seen relegations in the past and I will see them again. Thats football!

I very much liked OOTM's original post, but see TF's side. I agree with TF that, if we looked at this rationally, there's a huge gap in quality, fans should have low expectations and expect defeats; therefore, they shouldn't be surprised when we lose and turn against our team. But fans are far, far from rational. I'm afraid "I don't think RFC fans will be negative if we start losing games" seems like wishful thinking - just look at how we've reacted in the past.

TF makes a good point about Elm Park, but I think our good home record came from the cheering encouraging players, not booing whipping them into shape. Creative players in particular might fear doing something inventive if they'll get booed.

Of course, complete blind optimism can be just as destructive as pessimism (had the fans never turned against Bullivant, he might not have resigned), so fans should (and have the right to) be critical if we're significantly underperforming expectations. No manager or player should live purely on past glories, and /if/ things go disastrously next season, I'm sure Coppell will be one of the first to acknowledge a change is in order (something that Ferguson should have done years ago).

But I think OOTM's point is that our expectations are systematically too high. So if we end up W3 D1 L6 after 10 games, that's on par with / exceeding expectations. The danger is fans expect W7 D2 L1 and start getting on the players' backs.

[bobby m's syrup]

Reading fans have always had a streak of negativity and cynicism. This was true at Elm Park, just as now. Pehaps it is easier to accept defeat if you can walk away from the ground afterwards and say, "told you so".

[Top Flight]

I think the team will gain amazing support every game next season. People won't be turning against the team if we start losing to the likes of Boro etc.

The team will receive immense support. Of that I have no doubts!

Just because people are speculating on HNA about where we will finish, what players we need, whether we are well enough equipped, whether Kitson will struggle at the top level etc. This does not mean that the team will receive poor and negative support from the same people on a Saturday at the Mad Stad.

All the moaning and whinging will be confined to HNA where it is a forum and environment that encourages moaning, the causing of controversy, whinging, making wild statements to get a reaction, talking big and trying to cause a stir just purely for entertainment value. Also the fact that people are here to make a point. It is controversial arguments that cause debate. What I am saying is just because things might be talked about in an exaggerated and negative fashion on HNA, doesn't mean that things should be taken seriously or anyone should get overly worried that HNA sentiment will filter through the East Stand on Saturday afternoon.

People are here on HNA to be wildly optimistic or highly pessimistic just to create a talking point......

I am sure that the vast majority of RFC fans have realistic expectations and will certainly be supporting the team to the absolute hilt starting with Boro on August 19th.

People shouldn't get worked up about a few exaggerated comments on HNA which don't truly reflect peoples expectation levels!

[Only one Trevor Morley]

I think the team will gain amazing support every game next season. People won't be turning against the team if we start losing to the likes of Boro etc.

The team will receive immense support. Of that I have no doubts!

Just because people are speculating on HNA about where we will finish, what players we need, whether we are well enough equipped, whether Kitson will struggle at the top level etc. This does not mean that the team will receive poor and negative support from the same people on a Saturday at the Mad Stad.

All the moaning and whinging will be confined to HNA where it is a forum and environment that encourages moaning, the causing of controversy, whinging, making wild statements to get a reaction, talking big and trying to cause a stir just purely for entertainment value. Also the fact that people are here to make a point. It is controversial arguments that cause debate. What I am saying is just because things might be talked about in an exaggerated and negative fashion on HNA, doesn't mean that things should be taken seriously or anyone should get overly worried that HNA sentiment will filter through the East Stand on Saturday afternoon.

People are here on HNA to be wildly optimistic or highly pessimistic just to create a talking point......

I am sure that the vast majority of RFC fans have realistic expectations and will certainly be supporting the team to the absolute hilt starting with Boro on August 19th.

People shouldn't get worked up about a few exaggerated comments on HNA which don't truly reflect peoples expectation levels!

You've read this post the wrong way. I keep repeating its not about HNA being a massive moanfest. Its about reading supporters in general having got used to success and that success this season could include 18 defeats along the way. Are we ready for that and can we (as a group of fans rather than a message board) get behind our team during the bad times?

I agree that we need to create a cup final atmosphere for every match.

[Cavaman]

Surely success isn't just about results. I for one will be 'happy' if RFC put in terrific performances as they did in many games last season. If they win a few games as well that will make me not just happy but ecstatic.

[Scarface]

Good point, well made.

I worry that some of the posters on here expect our side from last year to be able to compete without too much strengthening just because West Ham and Wigan did so well last season. Personally I think many are under estimating the ability of the mid table Prem teams and aren't quite ready for the battle we have ahead of us.

I do think we have a good bunch of players, one that can do well, but I still think we are a few players short of a side I'd be confident of staying up with.

Well said and I think Coppell and Hammond are also over estimating the standard of our squad.

I'm just slightly annoyed that we were made to believe that the club had studied previously promoted teams and had a detailed plan for survival in the Premiership. Hence we all renewed season tickets at a vastly increased amount and as yet I see no real evidence that the club is really ready to invest in staying up.

Hopefully this will change by August 31st, but we need to make use of the momentum we'll have early doors and thus need our strongest team from day one.

Investing at Christmas when we're in the bottom 3 is very very risky and it rarely works.

[Only one Trevor Morley]

Good point, well made.

I worry that some of the posters on here expect our side from last year to be able to compete without too much strengthening just because West Ham and Wigan did so well last season. Personally I think many are under estimating the ability of the mid table Prem teams and aren't quite ready for the battle we have ahead of us.

I do think we have a good bunch of players, one that can do well, but I still think we are a few players short of a side I'd be confident of staying up with.

Well said and I think Coppell and Hammond are also over estimating the standard of our squad.

I'm just slightly annoyed that we were made to believe that the club had studied previously promoted teams and had a detailed plan for survival in the Premiership. Hence we all renewed season tickets at a vastly increased amount and as yet I see no real evidence that the club is really ready to invest in staying up.

Hopefully this will change by August 31st, but we need to make use of the momentum we'll have early doors and thus need our strongest team from day one.

Investing at Christmas when we're in the bottom 3 is very very risky and it rarely works.

These 'vastly inflated prices' are to allow the Chairman the luxury of a slow puncture when its comes to debts rather than losing money hand over fist - as I keep reminding people we're 10 million in debt. Reading have got a number of targets, some have come off, some havent. However whats important is that Reading have a clear view of the value of a player and wont spend our 'vastly inflated season ticket cash' on vastly inflated tranfers fees and wages.

There seems to be this illusion that an extra £160 quid each on season tickets is going to bankroll us to some massive signings. in the end its gained reading an extra 3 million - which probably doesnt even come close to covering the increase in wages of our existing players

So once again we rely on Madjeski to bail us out....

[TFF]

I won't accept defeat - and I'll get pretty p1ssed off if I see the team doing so.

Of course I realise that we are likely to lose more matches than we will win but the fact is that on our day we could beat anybody in the division. It might take the other side having a bad day to do it but we could win nonetheless.

If we lose to Man Utd I want to see the team and the fans up for it and expecting a win against Chelsea.

I will not resort to barracking the players/management unless I see no effort or desire from the team.

I do appreciate the sentiment behind the thread. Having been a season ticket holder from '84 to the last days at Elm Park I have seen my fair share of dross. This will be a season to remember but it is not a season to write off before it's started.

[Platypuss]

Good point, well made.

I worry that some of the posters on here expect our side from last year to be able to compete without too much strengthening just because West Ham and Wigan did so well last season. Personally I think many are under estimating the ability of the mid table Prem teams and aren't quite ready for the battle we have ahead of us.

I do think we have a good bunch of players, one that can do well, but I still think we are a few players short of a side I'd be confident of staying up with.

Well said and I think Coppell and Hammond are also over estimating the standard of our squad.

I'm just slightly annoyed that we were made to believe that the club had studied previously promoted teams and had a detailed plan for survival in the Premiership. Hence we all renewed season tickets at a vastly increased amount and as yet I see no real evidence that the club is really ready to invest in staying up.

Hopefully this will change by August 31st, but we need to make use of the momentum we'll have early doors and thus need our strongest team from day one.

Investing at Christmas when we're in the bottom 3 is very very risky and it rarely works.

These 'vastly inflated prices' are to allow the Chairman the luxury of a slow puncture when its comes to debts rather than losing money hand over fist - as I keep reminding people we're 10 million in debt. Reading have got a number of targets, some have come off, some havent. However whats important is that Reading have a clear view of the value of a player and wont spend our 'vastly inflated season ticket cash' on vastly inflated tranfers fees and wages.

There seems to be this illusion that an extra £160 quid each on season tickets is going to bankroll us to some massive signings. in the end its gained reading an extra 3 million - which probably doesnt even come close to covering the increase in wages of our existing players

So once again we rely on Madjeski to bail us out....

Why has the vastly inflated TV rights money from Sky conveniently been ignored?

[Dirk Gently]

For me it's not the results - it's the performance and committment that counts.

As long as the players give their all I'll be happy, even if we lose every match. But considering what the fans now have to put in to watch matches (and to keep the players able to feed their families - or not!), I don't think any obvious lack of effort will be tolerated for very long.

[Top Flight]

I think the team will gain amazing support every game next season. People won't be turning against the team if we start losing to the likes of Boro etc.

The team will receive immense support. Of that I have no doubts!

Just because people are speculating on HNA about where we will finish, what players we need, whether we are well enough equipped, whether Kitson will struggle at the top level etc. This does not mean that the team will receive poor and negative support from the same people on a Saturday at the Mad Stad.

All the moaning and whinging will be confined to HNA where it is a forum and environment that encourages moaning, the causing of controversy, whinging, making wild statements to get a reaction, talking big and trying to cause a stir just purely for entertainment value. Also the fact that people are here to make a point. It is controversial arguments that cause debate. What I am saying is just because things might be talked about in an exaggerated and negative fashion on HNA, doesn't mean that things should be taken seriously or anyone should get overly worried that HNA sentiment will filter through the East Stand on Saturday afternoon.

People are here on HNA to be wildly optimistic or highly pessimistic just to create a talking point......

I am sure that the vast majority of RFC fans have realistic expectations and will certainly be supporting the team to the absolute hilt starting with Boro on August 19th.

People shouldn't get worked up about a few exaggerated comments on HNA which don't truly reflect peoples expectation levels!

You've read this post the wrong way. I keep repeating its not about HNA being a massive moanfest. Its about reading supporters in general having got used to success and that success this season could include 18 defeats along the way. Are we ready for that and can we (as a group of fans rather than a message board) get behind our team during the bad times?

I agree that we need to create a cup final atmosphere for every match.

And what I am saying is that our fans are not so stupid that they think the Premiership will be an easy ride. I think everyone is well aware of the stuggle that we could be about to face and are ready for it. The fans will be fully behind the team and are more than prepared to accept some defeats.......... (accept alot of defeats) Fans won't get on the teams backs. If they do then they are a little bit thick.

Maybe there will be arguments about it on HNA but that is what HNA is for. On a Saturday afternoon, the crowd will be fully behind the team. The players will not get booed off after we have just lost 3-0 at home to Wigan. Whatever happens the team will be supported throughout by the fans.

You said: "Some of the threads on here today have prompted me to post this thread. "

Meaning you see a link between what is said on HNA and what everyones true expectations are. I am saying, don't worry about what is said on HNA because it doesn't reflect how people will behave or treat the team on a Saturday.

[floyd__streete]

I won't accept defeat - and I'll get pretty p1ssed off if I see the team doing so.

Me too. In fact, whenever we lose a game I peel off my hooped shirt in temper when I get home, stamp on it and throw a Sammy Kuffour style fists on the floor tantrum. I then go outside and kick the neighbour's cat as I don't have one of my own.

[iang040563]

I won't accept defeat - and I'll get pretty p1ssed off if I see the team doing so.

Me too. In fact, whenever we lose a game I peel off my hooped shirt in temper when I get home, stamp on it and throw a Sammy Kuffour style fists on the floor tantrum. I then go outside and kick the neighbour's cat as I don't have one of my own.

118 118 - could i have the number for the RSPCA please?