Where has £3.95 million gone?

[Royal Lady]

I have to say I completely agree with Victor and Agent Balti - they echo what I have been saying for the past couple of years to be honest.

I, too, have become disillusioned. If I can get out of going to matches now, I do. I don't believe "the club" want promotion, I think we're lucky to be where we are in the league, purely because there are some pretty ropey teams in it this season. At best, we might get in a play-off position further into the season. If "the club" had any ambition at all we'd be buying in new and better players to help us push on this season. Harte and a loan signing were cheap, but "the club" probably thought it would keep us little fans quiet for a bit, esp after selling Gylffi.

Until something is said, or done, to the contrary, most people who are not still clouded by this "SJM saved the club, he's the messiah" bollox will continue to question how, if we're such a well-run club, we can't afford a couple of million for one or even two new players to strengthen the team esp since we're always being spoon fed the "ambition" bollox.

I want to go to games and enjoy watching us play, I want to go to home games thinking 100% we can win this, but I don't. And you can tell me I'm not a proper fan or to eff off - but it still doesn't answer the questions that like-minded fans are asking.

[under the tin]

JM has no money left. He is skint. Any money left over from the Gylfi transfer will go toward covering the running costs of the club. This will allow him to remain as the chairman without having to invest any further money into the club. You would have to work out what the shortfall is likely to be year on year before you could calculate future player sales.

This, for me, is nearest to the actual situation.
Whether or not JM is actually "skint" remains to be seen, but it is public knowledge that he has vast amounts of capital tied up in other projects, like Station Hill, and his printing business.
What is also in the public domain are his press interviews, where he has stated that the club must now "pay it's own way".
This is a crystal clear indication that he is no longer going to personally fund anything to do with RFC.
Whether it's a case of him not being able to afford it due to his other fiscal commitments, or that he's plain disillusioned with pro football remains to be seen. I personally think it's a bit of both.
Whether you are a pro or anti JM person, what is undeniable is that the successes of the last ten years have been as a direct result of a chairman, who, when push came to shove, was prepared to personally fund the acquisition of players to improve the team against the backdrop of a loss making football business.
Well now, that tap has been turned off, and I fully expect that the consequence will be an ultimate return to the third tier.

[Royal Lady]

Perhaps he shouldn't have got so involved in the Station Hill project. And is he expecting the hotel to "fend for itself" too?

[under the tin]

Perhaps he shouldn't have got so involved in the Station Hill project. And is he expecting the hotel to "fend for itself" too?

The hotel's expected to make money.
FWIW, I think that the things like Station Hill are a convenient smokescreen. I believe that he's extremely pi$$ed of with player wages being so out of his control.

[strap]

This is exactly why i didnt renew my season ticket , i was fed up of spending my hard earned backing the club/team when the owner only leant his money and took it back to the detriment of the club/team

You and me both mate. Trouble is, the accounts are by necessity at least 12 months behind where we are, (and by law they can be up to 21 months behind reality), so it is difficult to see how much of the outstanding Mr Mad loan has actually been repaid. Don't forget, the interest on these loans has been allowed to roll up too. it is not paid annually. True , the rate chargeable is cuently about 0% as I think the agreed rate was actaully 0.5% BELOW base rate (will need to check accounts), but there was still around 2.5M of interst accrued last time I looked.

Until the acounts up to June 2011 are published (latest submittal date to Companies Hse will be April 2012, and I don't know how quickly after that they are available for public scrutiny), we simply won't know the +ve impact on the club's finances, (if any), Gylfi's sale actually had.

Oh for the days when we supporters weren't the slightest bit interested in clubs' balance sheets!!!

[strap]

Perhaps he shouldn't have got so involved in the Station Hill project. And is he expecting the hotel to "fend for itself" too?

The hotel's expected to make money.
FWIW, I think that the things like Station Hill are a convenient smokescreen. I believe that he's extremely pi$$ed of with player wages being so out of his control.

From previous accounts, the Hotel generates c. 500k profit to the Club every year. There is a loan of c. £16.5M outstanding on the hotel, guaranteed by Mr Mad at 0% interest. The hotel is 100% owned by RFC.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Players wages are fully within his control, set a cap and stick to it, if we cannot afford the high wages say so, there must be plenty of decent players who would be happy to play at RFC.

ANd if we try to sign a player and it falls through due to high wage demands then say so.

What we are also missing is a Parky or Murty, a fans player, and from looking at the squad there is no one even remotely near it.

[Northern Git]

From previous accounts, the Hotel generates c. 500k profit to the Club every year. There is a loan of c. £16.5M outstanding on the hotel, guaranteed by Mr Mad at 0% interest. The hotel is 100% owned by RFC.

Strap, not quite correct - if I understand it correctly (and there is a high possibility I dont ) there are three companies involved here. 1). Reading Football Club Ltd 2). Millenium Madejski Hotel Ltd and the holding company 3). Reading Football Club PLC. The later wholy owns the first two and is itself whole owned by JM. Reading football club LTD has no direct connection, apart from physically, to the hotel

[Royal Lady]

You see, I don't understand why you would do that. Why wouldn't you have a hotel owned by yourself and a football club owned by yourself but not have them under one umbrella? Is it because it's easier to move money about if they're put together?

[Royal Lady]

Oh, and what I also don't understand is, didn't the hotel expansion cost something like £11 million? And JM put the money into that for it to be, apparently, returning £500k profit per year. Where did the money come from? Also, he obviously rates the hotel much higher than the football club or he could have put £11 million into the club instead couldn't he? I know this is very simplified, but I genuinely don't understand it. Unless, of course, the £11 million or whatever it was, was moved from one of his other "companies" under his umbrella company.....

[under the tin]

Players wages are fully within his control, set a cap and stick to it, if we cannot afford the high wages say so, there must be plenty of decent players who would be happy to play at RFC.

ANd if we try to sign a player and it falls through due to high wage demands then say so.

What we are also missing is a Parky or Murty, a fans player, and from looking at the squad there is no one even remotely near it.

I think that if JM was to set a wage cap at RFC, it would be several grand a week less than anyone else's, and would be 1% basic wage, and 99% performance based.
Although there are footballer mercenaries out there, sometimes it is the intangibles that can have a positive effect in attracting players.
In my mind's eye, I can hear Olly in his west country burr saying "We only pays ten gran a week, but yer missus an you can see yer every week on Match of the day"

Also, a club that is perceived to be growing, moving forwards is a draw. Sussex's answer to Real Madrid will definitely undergo a reniassance, what with the flash new stadium, the feelgood factor, etc. Footballers are competitive athletes, and want to be associated with that kind of vibe.
Reading, in my view, are no longer perceived to be moving forward. I think it is that perception that is affecting attendances here, and also makes it harder to sell the club to a transfer target.

[Wimb]

I just don't quite understand why SJM or anybody else WOULDN'T want promotion.

Can the Madejski conspiracy artists please tell me how in any way it would benefit the club to be in the CCC and not the PL? If memory serves the only time we've made a profit in the last 30 years was during the PL era for gods sake. Even if he's unhappy with the wage commitments etc of the Premier League, he doesn't have to bow to it if we go up does he? it's not like someone would hold a gun to his head and say you HAVE to pay those wages etc, we could just as easily do what Burnley did and take the money and run.

For the fans that have lost faith then I feel sorry for you but I don't understand why, just look at the team and tell me how its any different or less promising than ANY OTHER Championship side out there.

Goalkeepers - Feds is an Aussie international and we have 2 U21 international goalkeepers in the wings who are earning good reviews

Defence - Harte's played in the CL Semi Finals and a World Cup. Yes his best years may be behind him but he's steady and has already chipped in with a good few goals. Armstrong cost over half a million and was a player of the season, Mills cost £2 million and was one of the most highly rated defenders in the division. Kizi has been signed TWICE by us and captains his country and Pearce is very highly rated and is improving literally with every week. Add to that a very solid RB in Griffin, with potential squad fillers/stand ins like Cummings and Kelly and we look in good shape.

Midfield - In Kebe and McAnuff we have two of the best wingers in the Championship. People are panicing every week about Kebe leaving and Jobi was apparently subjected to a £2.5 million bid by QPR. HRK and Antonio aren't the finished product yet but both have shown glimpses of talent at a young age and are also the right level to be patient behind an established pair of wingers.
In the centre Jem looks as good as Harper/Sidwell did during the early stages of their career, we've invested to bring a proven CCC midfielder in Leigertwood on loan and both Brian Howard and Jay Tabb were signed from fellow Championship sides for 6 figure sums. We also have an extremley promising player in Obita who Sir Trevor Brooking has already tipped for the top.

Strikers - Hunt cost 700k and is another international who's been scoring goals for us whenever he's fit. Long is finally living up to his promise and has arguably been our best player this season, while Church has also scored crucial goals, has international honours and is home grown. In reserve we still have Bignall and Taylor who have also shown flashes of talent and COULD kick on and come through in the next 18 months or so.

What honestly do we lack and how on God's green earth can people blast a lack of investment. We've got a squad that is EASILY capable of challenging any team in this league and the best thing is that the general make up of the team is full of players who have yet to peak and have grown up with the club, making them easier to keep hold of or at the very least commanding big fees.

On top of all this we're 8 days into a window that every manager states is tough to buy in and clubs can end up getting fleeced. We're 6 points away from Automatic Promotion with the squad we have at our disposal and unless there is real value readily available in the transfer market then I think the club are 100% right in hanging onto whatever money we do have. It makes me laugh because this board was so quick to slam Rodgers for making the Smith negotiations public and yet now they expect us to reveal our hand over a target such as Charlie Austin?!

This football club has signed players in every transfer window that I can remember and I think we'll see at least another loanee in by the end of this one.

OVerall this club is in fantastic shape with a good young manager, a talented young squad and a hierarchy who now have a decade of experience in steering the club into a position to challenge for the top flight. Until our business plan sees us finish well off the pace I think the benefit of the doubt firmly resides with those making the decisions then with a small section of supporters.

[Royal Lady]

Mills cost £2 million and was one of the most highly rated defenders in the division. What's your point here? How is he for US?

with potential squad fillers/stand ins like Cummings and Kelly and we look in good shape.

Seriously??

We've got a squad that is EASILY capable of challenging any team in this league Why don't we then? We've had some naff draws recently

And if you think Leeds, Cardiff, Swansea, QPR etc aren't going to be strengthening for the final push to the season, you're deluded. We COULD buy someone in the transfer window, but then, we bought Ian Harte for £50k or whatever it was - you reap what you sow.

If you think JM is still showing ambition - personally, I think you're wrong.

[Stranded]

I love the fact that we are doing well, which we are this season to date, it's because the rest of the division is ropey and not that we might, just might, be doing things right for the here and now.

[Wimb]

Mills cost £2 million and was one of the most highly rated defenders in the division. What's your point here? How is he for US?

with potential squad fillers/stand ins like Cummings and Kelly and we look in good shape.

Seriously??

We've got a squad that is EASILY capable of challenging any team in this league Why don't we then? We've had some naff draws recently

And if you think Leeds, Cardiff, Swansea, QPR etc aren't going to be strengthening for the final push to the season, you're deluded. We COULD buy someone in the transfer window, but then, we bought Ian Harte for £50k or whatever it was - you reap what you sow.

If you think JM is still showing ambition - personally, I think you're wrong.

It's eight days into the window, how do you know we won't strengthen?

Mills isn't terrible and he's still a good defender with the potential to get better. He's not lived up to his fee quite yet but he's not costing us goals and he's won us a couple of games.

The thing about a squad is that at this level you can't have a player like Griffin to back him up. A) we can't afford the wages and B) which player of that quality wants to sit on a bench? Kelly and Cummings have shown when they've played that they've capable of standing in on a temporary basis just fine, don't cost a lot and can only improve.

We have challenged every team in the league, bar a drab defeat at Boro and a mauling at QPR but then every team has those results, QPR got beat at home by Watford, Leeds thumped at home by Cardiff etc.

I don't think it's a case of showing ambition, it's a case of managing a football club. His ambition is to have a self supporting club capable of challenging in the top 2 tiers and that's the RIGHT way to go about it. If the man died tomorrow what would you expect from the football club? has anybody else been making noises about wanting to invest in Reading and having been rejected? Would I like him to dip into his own pocket and fund the purchase of 2-3 players? of course but it shouldn't be expected anymore then me asking you to fund a player signing.

[under the tin]

I love the fact that we are doing well, which we are this season to date, it's because the rest of the division is ropey and not that we might, just might, be doing things right for the here and now.

This is a truly mediocre division, and that is reflected every week in the results, which show that virtually any team in it can beat any other.
It is also highlighted in the points spread between 6th down to the lower end of the table.

[under the tin]

Mills cost £2 million and was one of the most highly rated defenders in the division. What's your point here? How is he for US?

with potential squad fillers/stand ins like Cummings and Kelly and we look in good shape.

Seriously??

We've got a squad that is EASILY capable of challenging any team in this league Why don't we then? We've had some naff draws recently

And if you think Leeds, Cardiff, Swansea, QPR etc aren't going to be strengthening for the final push to the season, you're deluded. We COULD buy someone in the transfer window, but then, we bought Ian Harte for £50k or whatever it was - you reap what you sow.

If you think JM is still showing ambition - personally, I think you're wrong.

It's eight days into the window, how do you know we won't strengthen?

Mills isn't terrible and he's still a good defender with the potential to get better. He's not lived up to his fee quite yet but he's not costing us goals and he's won us a couple of games.

The thing about a squad is that at this level you can't have a player like Griffin to back him up. A) we can't afford the wages and B) which player of that quality wants to sit on a bench? Kelly and Cummings have shown when they've played that they've capable of standing in on a temporary basis just fine, don't cost a lot and can only improve.

We have challenged every team in the league, bar a drab defeat at Boro and a mauling at QPR but then every team has those results, QPR got beat at home by Watford, Leeds thumped at home by Cardiff etc.

I don't think it's a case of showing ambition, it's a case of managing a football club. His ambition is to have a self supporting club capable of challenging in the top 2 tiers and that's the RIGHT way to go about it. If the man died tomorrow what would you expect from the football club? has anybody else been making noises about wanting to invest in Reading and having been rejected? Would I like him to dip into his own pocket and fund the purchase of 2-3 players? of course but it shouldn't be expected anymore then me asking you to fund a player signing.

We didn't get a mauling at QPR. WE just didn't turn up.

[Bucks Dave]

Strap, you're right that interest on all the loans has been accruing in accounts but the word accrual means that SJM has not taken a penny of interest out of the club, it is all still sitting there. The last accounts showed the hotel made a loss of around £300K but that was during the recession and when new hotels were going up in the area. His loans were around £25M, two thirds of which were at zero interest and one third at 1% below HSBC bank rate. That helped to build a £40M new stadium. For comparison, Watford FC are regularly lent money to keep going, their directors make loans at 3.5% above the Barclays Bank rate and their chief shareholder (Lord Ashcroft) at 4.5% above.Their directors also pay themselves several hundred thousand pounds in total whereas SJM takes zero in emoluments.

Those of you who say that SJM is taking money out of the club can of course produce their own evidence.The debt situation is more complicated than just looking back over the last 5 years and I don't have room to explain it all but you have to take into account all the past, the cost of building the stadium and so on.

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

I love the fact that we are doing well, which we are this season to date, it's because the rest of the division is ropey and not that we might, just might, be doing things right for the here and now.

This is a truly mediocre division, and that is reflected every week in the results, which show that virtually any team in it can beat any other.
It is also highlighted in the points spread between 6th down to the lower end of the table.

and how the promoted teams are ok, and the relegated teams are no worldbeaters.

[Victor Meldrew]

don't even think about promotion because the club doesn't want it.

That's what they were saying in 2005. It's excruciating reading this stuff.

Don't read it then if it affects you so much.
That is exactly the point-for probably over 100 years people have been saying the club doesn't want promotion.
Just because it happened in 2005, after which the chairman appears to have lost interest/bottle/desire,doesn't mean to say that now the club wants promotion and all the hassle that goes with it.
Don't you live overseas somewhere?
Maybe you don't get to games so take it from me this is what people are saying-whether it is correct or not is another matter.
I hope this has not been too excruciating for you-I dread to think how you react to anything at all serious in life if a few words on a message board cause you so much angst.