The Snowball stat thread

[From Despair To Where?]

Just because people don't post in a thread doesn't mean they arent interested in it. I read nearly every thread on here but rarely post a reply, this doesn't mean I don't find the thread a good read.
I don't agree with every posters thoughts but don't resort to mud slinging, why do others do this ?

My final observation on the matter, for what it's worth. It's tedious seeing the front page of the board dominated with numerous threads with largely the same over-analysed data, basically all saying the same thing. Add to that the apparent desire of Snowball to stifle rather than stimulate debate because of his dogmatic adherance to his own methodology and general failure to acknowledge that any other may be of value.

Compare his threads to those of Strap, the other HNA statto. He presents his data with no pre-conceived interpretation and uses it to stimulate further debate and elicit opinions. His threads are generally light hearted and do not take themselves too seriously. It is a discussion board, after all and it's meant to be fun, surely?

I know which one I, and many others would rather read.

[Mike Hunt]

I do like reading Snowball's stats, mainly the ones about our form and projected finishes. But when he starts to bring crazy stats like getting 5 points for assists or what have you, it gets a bit too much.

I actually think that Snowball is in fact the best troll / fisherman on this list. His posts infuriate hundreds daily. The way he stifles instead of debates, the way he sticks to his opinions and does not care for the opinions of others and the way he attacks people in a way that gets under their skin.

All in all, he is entertaining to me. Infuriating at times, but entertaining.

Well done Snowball, please don't change.

[facaldaqui]

I do like reading Snowball's stats, mainly the ones about our form and projected finishes. But when he starts to bring crazy stats like getting 5 points for assists or what have you, it gets a bit too much.

I actually think that Snowball is in fact the best troll / fisherman on this list. His posts infuriate hundreds daily. The way he stifles instead of debates, the way he sticks to his opinions and does not care for the opinions of others and the way he attacks people in a way that gets under their skin.

All in all, he is entertaining to me. Infuriating at times, but entertaining.

Well done Snowball, please don't change.

Agreed, I love Snowball's stats--and he often spots things first. Of course, he is impossible to argue with. He disagreed with me when I said Church was a bad shot--I didn't argue back, because Snowball produced stats showing that he sees every goal as a shot. It's hard to argue with that in hard terms, but the closer you are to goal, the less aim is needed; nor is much aim needed to bundle a ball into the net or mishit one in--someone who is a good shot is someone who has a good aim, which to me Church doesn't.

[Snowball]

Agreed, I love Snowball's stats--and he often spots things first. Of course, he is impossible to argue with. He disagreed with me when I said Church was a bad shot--I didn't argue back, because Snowball produced stats showing that he sees every goal as a shot. It's hard to argue with that in hard terms, but the closer you are to goal, the less aim is needed; nor is much aim needed to bundle a ball into the net or mishit one in--someone who is a good shot is someone who has a good aim, which to me Church doesn't.

Fac, don't official stats see every goal as a shot/header?

We all want to see great goals but there have always been certain players who manage to shin
them in. It's interesting that Church gets these tap-ins but no other striker is getting there.


Strange? Or does it mean Church gets into good positions.



I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself but I personally DON'T rate Church.

I personally DON'T think he's a good shot.

I personally think most of his running is "for show" and does little.

I personally think he's not "hard" enough.

I personally think he lacks bravery.

I personally think he is our weakest forward in terms of holding off centre-backs

I personally think he's the striker opposition defenders would most like to play against.

I personally think he's the striker I'd most be prepared to lose.

For "personally" read "subjectively."


Then I see his stats and I think WTF? How can "such a shit player"
have stats like players who I, personally, subjectively, think are MILES better than him?


So I question my perception. I look at the stats. I think. "If ALF is MILES better than Church, why does McDermott keep picking Chiurch over Alf?

Church just isn't a sexy player. He rarely gets the crowd going with brilliance or sheer guts. He isn't LOVED and we see him as worse than he is.

In the Prem, Crouch is like that. His goals record is amazing and they keep coming, but nobody seems to think he's any good.


I defended Long because his stats were good and he had loads of development left. That is I believed in him subjectively AND had stats to support my belief.

With Church I ONLY have the stats (and McDermott).... and here is where I differ from most here.

I believe the stats are more likely to highlight the player's worth
than eyeballs are (unless they are expertly-trained eyeballs)

[Mike Hunt]

Crouch is a lege...

After all, when asked the question in an interview “what would you be if you were not a footballer” Crouch responded with the simple answer….. “a virgin”.

[Snowball]

Agreed

[Ian Royal]

Crouch is a lege...

After all, when asked the question in an interview “what would you be if you were not a footballer” Crouch responded with the simple answer….. “a virgin”.

One of my all time favourite football stories. InstaLegend material.

[PistolPete]

Have all Snowballs threads been merged? If so, absurd.

Snowball is a parody of himself, gets it wrong as often as he gets it right, has failed to admit to making a mistake longer than this board has been on the www - BUT it is wrong to lump his crap stats in with his good stats.

Please un-merge.

[cmonurz]

Have all Snowballs threads been merged? If so, absurd.

Snowball is a parody of himself, gets it wrong as often as he gets it right, has failed to admit to making a mistake longer than this board has been on the www - BUT it is wrong to lump his crap stats in with his good stats.

Please un-merge.

Reading PP's post, it's been done for Snowball's attitude towards the board and those using it, nothing to do with the stats themselves.

[rfc2001]

I love a stat! So anyone ripping snowball and his stats why don't you create us flawless stat!

[Maguire]

Excellent moderation here

[sheshnu]

Snowball I love reading your stats*, but why do you feel the need to be so aggressive with it all? Even you must realise it's just a bit of fun.

*it passes the time occasionally

[Wimb]

This moderation should now mean that anybody can easily ignore Snowball's stats if they so choose.

Hopefully this will end the abuse from both sides, good moderating.

Maybe you should start a fresh thread and get Platy to delete this one? then you've got a clean slate to work from and it won't be muddled by non-stats postings.

[Snowball]

This moderation should now mean that anybody can easily ignore Snowball's stats if they so choose.

Whereas, before, if I started a thread with the word STATS in it, it was too difficult for them to avoid it?

Nope, this bringing together is farcical and means all the stats are mixed up, any responses are mixed up,
and it would be like ten different conversations occurring at the same time.

In other words, the stats have been killed.

Hopefully this will end the abuse from both sides, good moderating.

Why does this make any difference? All they had to do before was ignore. They didn't.

All they have to do now is ignore. They won't.

It's cyber-bullying, pure and simple, and the rabid dogs have had their way.

Maybe you should start a fresh thread and get Platy to delete this one? then you've got a clean slate to work from and it won't be muddled by non-stats postings.

Pointless

[Wimb]

Fair, but I think the argument from a lot of posters was that there was so many threads in the top half of the forum it was making them hard to ignore... perhaps not the best excuses for the diatribe but it's still a valid point that there were a lot of threads, some quite overlapping in areas and most full of shouting from both sides. The stats themselves had long since been buried.

Nobody has got any excuse not to ignore this thread if they don't like your methodology while at the same time you don't have to fight 5 or 6 different running battles across different threads, which is how the situation would have continued with so many different ones open.

In terms of multiple conversations on a single thread, I don't think it would be hard for those who are genuinely engaging with your stats to say... 'on the point of the attacking stats' or to quote them to show which stat they were talking about. Admittedly it's a bit more long winded then each having a thread of it's own but this seems like a fair compromise... if not slightly weighted in favour of the majority rather than yourself.

[Extended-Phenotype]

Can we also re-route every post Snowball makes on any other thread so they end up here?

Rather tired of every interesting discussion on this forum being hijacked.

[melonhead]

since snowball helpfully updates his stats after every game it shouldnt be such a problem with all the previous posts being mixed up, people can reply as and when snowbers posts something, its not like its an important historical document that lots of people will want to wadethrough.

stats are very much of the moment imo

[Wycombe Royal]

As others has said I hope Snowball continues posting some of his stats on this topic. What gets to me is all the subjective things he includes like points for MC's, LC's, assisting themselves to score and then there are half assists, etc. Stick to plain and simple statistics that come from real data and not all the made up nonsense.

[melonhead]

tbf its not made up, those things happened -its the significance of them, and the fact that its only applied when he thinks its important


as lomng as you keep that in mind theyre still relevant and helpful.

[Wycombe Royal]

tbf its not made up, those things happened -its the significance of them, and the fact that its only applied when he thinks its important


as lomng as you keep that in mind theyre still relevant and helpful.

I'm talking about the point scoring primarily , as well as half assists, etc. I'm not doubting the events happened - Roberts DID win the penalty that he then scored. But bar one website and Snowballs mind everyone knows that in statitical terms he does not get an assist for it.