Failure to buy a striker

[LUX]

Wot no 'you know it makes senseeeee'?

whoosh

you're thinking of Sir Dodger

[Svlad Cjelli]

.....
But the thing about the parachute payments is it tempts clubs to keep spending. Then,
if they fail to go up, they have racked up some scary debts.

Look at RFC, relatively prudent, shipped out a lot of players for good money yet still not exactly flush.

What probably didn't help much was hanging on to the big boys and spending oodles trying to bounce back

Yep, spot on. A presentation by Dr John beech on of the foremost academics on football economics this summer, included the fact that one of the worst things a club can do if it wants to financially stable is to change divisions.

And we did that twice in 3 seasons - the worst possible scenario.

[Snowball]

When HM Gov does its investigation, perhaps it should recognise the problems
clubs have with going up (esp into the Prem, but increasingly so into the CCC)
and allow clubs to put money into its own ring-fenced "escrow account" avoiding tax
but usable only for after going up or to compensate for relegation.

Or the FA could run the same sort of scheme, "taxing" clubs and then paying out as needed


Problem is, if you make profit you lose a lot to tax... be nice if that could be saved and ring-fenced
to use in the event of a league-change.

I am aware there are pay-outs from the Prem going both ways

[RoyalBlue]

Another two points on the plate for taking but p*ssed away because the chairman won't reinvest even some of The Sig Windfall in allowing McDermott to buy a decent replacement goalscorer.

The wide players created plenty of chances to win today's game, particularly in the first half, but those chances were spurned by a 'strike force' who are producing more blanks than a Chernobyl sperm bank.

If the chairman has decided to stop putting any money into the club that he's been more than happy to milk for his reputation, then he can hardly complain when supporters stop spending their hard earned cash. And they will - today's low attendance is unlikely to be solely due to Xmas shopping. That having been said, fighting through a scrum of shoppers is unlikely to have been any worse than having to endure the 'football' produced in the second half.

The fact that Robson-Kanu is brought on in the hope that he can turn the match around says it all in terms of the resources that McDermott has been granted in order to enable him to 'seriously compete in this division'.

John Madejski is football's Nick Clegg!

[Harpers So Solid Crew]

Check out the crowds last night at QPR and Swansea

[RoyalBlue]

Check out the crowds last night at QPR and Swansea

Irrelevant. They've always had shyte crowds and the QPR game was live on terrestial.

We started off with decent crowds but they are dropping and will continue to drop whilst we fail to win games merely due to the absence of a decent goalscorer.

[under the tin]

Check out the crowds last night at QPR and Swansea

Irrelevant. They've always had shyte crowds and the QPR game was live on terrestial.

We started off with decent crowds but they are dropping and will continue to drop whilst we fail to win games merely due to the absence of a decent goalscorer.

Bullshit.
It is only due to the (relative) successes of the past decade or so that we have finally managed to overtake the Red abomination in Wiltshire in terms of all time average attendance figures. Attendance-wise, RFC is still punching above its weight, in the afterglow of the recent successes mentioned.
Headington pulled in 5-6000 in the blue square, and I'd bet a tenner that we wouldn't get as many, were we to somehow find RFC there, (which is quite possible, given the direction the club is going )

[RoyalBlue]

Check out the crowds last night at QPR and Swansea

Irrelevant. They've always had shyte crowds and the QPR game was live on terrestial.

We started off with decent crowds but they are dropping and will continue to drop whilst we fail to win games merely due to the absence of a decent goalscorer.

Bullshit.
It is only due to the (relative) successes of the past decade or so that we have finally managed to overtake the Red abomination in Wiltshire in terms of all time average attendance figures. Attendance-wise, RFC is still punching above its weight, in the afterglow of the recent successes mentioned.
Headington pulled in 5-6000 in the blue square, and I'd bet a tenner that we wouldn't get as many, were we to somehow find RFC there, (which is quite possible, given the direction the club is going )

And with a very late entry you look set to pick up the 2010 award for the most irrelevant and off target response (wider than poor old Shane's efforts today)!

What relevance whatsoever does the reason our crowds have picked up over the last decade have to the discussion on the drop off of this season's attendances?!

Fact, our crowds are dropping from the level earlier in the season. Fact, over this season QPR and Swansea have had crap crowds compared to ours.

[under the tin]

Irrelevant. They've always had shyte crowds and the QPR game was live on terrestial.

We started off with decent crowds but they are dropping and will continue to drop whilst we fail to win games merely due to the absence of a decent goalscorer.

I was trying to point out that historically, so have we.

Maybe, just maybe, after our Hollywood years of being in the upper reaches of the league ladder, the status quo is returning.
Reading have been winning/losing games, and missing goalscoring chances for 130 odd years, but the attendances have grown as a direct consequence of the general perception that the club was progressing. There was forward momentum. (Current international players in the hoops, big flash new stadium, higher profile, success on the pitch, etc.)

Now we live in a world where that successful side has been dismantled, and we have a chairman who is unable to bankroll any further forward momentum. Now, the public perception is that the club is at best treading water.
That sounds awfully familiar to old school fans like me, and it comes as no surprise that there is a correlation between that general perception and attendances.
If only it was solely about buying a new striker........

[Wimb]

Irrelevant. They've always had shyte crowds and the QPR game was live on terrestial.

We started off with decent crowds but they are dropping and will continue to drop whilst we fail to win games merely due to the absence of a decent goalscorer.

I was trying to point out that historically, so have we.

Maybe, just maybe, after our Hollywood years of being in the upper reaches of the league ladder, the status quo is returning.
Reading have been winning/losing games, and missing goalscoring chances for 130 odd years, but the attendances have grown as a direct consequence of the general perception that the club was progressing. There was forward momentum. (Current international players in the hoops, big flash new stadium, higher profile, success on the pitch, etc.)

Now we live in a world where that successful side has been dismantled, and we have a chairman who is unable to bankroll any further forward momentum. Now, the public perception is that the club is at best treading water.
That sounds awfully familiar to old school fans like me, and it comes as no surprise that there is a correlation between that general perception and attendances.
If only it was solely about buying a new striker........

^^^ agreed

Depends what you want out of your football team isn't it?

I'm happy turning out and watching Reading where I can and I'm no more/less inclined to go now then when we were in the third tier. For me it's about supporting the players who are putting on the hoops rather then worrying about who is/isn't in them. Sometimes I don't go because I don't have the spare cash, sometimes I don't go because there's something else I'd rather be doing but I had the same attitude in the Premier League when I was back home.

As for not moving forward then I think that's pretty hard to say right now. Certainly we're not where we were 3 years ago but relegation happened and for some clubs it takes a while to get over it. I'd argue that we are once again moving forward, giving experience to young players that the management believe can take us back up to the Premier League and complimenting those with some more experienced heads, just as Coppell, Pardew and McGhee did in years gone past.

If you want instant spend/instant success then you're with the wrong club.

[under the tin]

As for not moving forward then I think that's pretty hard to say right now. Certainly we're not where we were 3 years ago but relegation happened and for some clubs it takes a while to get over it. I'd argue that we are once again moving forward, giving experience to young players that the management believe can take us back up to the Premier League and complimenting those with some more experienced heads, just as Coppell, Pardew and McGhee did in years gone past.

If you want instant spend/instant success then you're with the wrong club.

The point I was trying to make with Royalblue is that we're not some kind of Manchester United (or Brighton ) of the Thames Valley.
Our support is fragile because for most of the last 130 odd years, Reading Fc have been synonymous with mediocrity.

It's also about the difference between perceptions and reality.
The reality of the time when those managers you mentioned were in charge was that we had a high profile multi millionaire in charge, who despite moaning about costs and wages, when push came to shove, backed those managers with hard cash.
This led to the perception held by local rivals, and the non football attending general public alike that Jm was a "sugar daddy" chairman.
Good young players were recruited from big clubs, like Arsenal. Sizeable fees were involved. Column inches were being filled. There was building, there was optimism.

Today, the same bloke's still the chairman, but he is a changed man. The club stands on its own feet. Sugar Daddy has left the building.
As a direct result of this, perceptions of the club have changed too, Most people within, and outside the fanbase can name players that Reading have sold. Naming the acquisitions, and the up and coming youngsters is solely the province of the already comitted supporter.
Reading has its committed supporters, but if we're to hold on to the latter day fans, then the club has to do more to encourage them, or they will continue to bleed away. It's not just about spending money. It's also about giving cause for optimism.

[Wimb]

As for not moving forward then I think that's pretty hard to say right now. Certainly we're not where we were 3 years ago but relegation happened and for some clubs it takes a while to get over it. I'd argue that we are once again moving forward, giving experience to young players that the management believe can take us back up to the Premier League and complimenting those with some more experienced heads, just as Coppell, Pardew and McGhee did in years gone past.

If you want instant spend/instant success then you're with the wrong club.

The point I was trying to make with Royalblue is that we're not some kind of Manchester United (or Brighton ) of the Thames Valley.
Our support is fragile because for most of the last 130 odd years, Reading Fc have been synonymous with mediocrity.

It's also about the difference between perceptions and reality.
The reality of the time when those managers you mentioned were in charge was that we had a high profile multi millionaire in charge, who despite moaning about costs and wages, when push came to shove, backed those managers with hard cash.
This led to the perception held by local rivals, and the non football attending general public alike that Jm was a "sugar daddy" chairman.
Good young players were recruited from big clubs, like Arsenal. Sizeable fees were involved. Column inches were being filled. There was building, there was optimism.

Today, the same bloke's still the chairman, but he is a changed man. The club stands on its own feet. Sugar Daddy has left the building.
As a direct result of this, perceptions of the club have changed too, Most people within, and outside the fanbase can name players that Reading have sold. Naming the acquisitions, and the up and coming youngsters is solely the province of the already comitted supporter.
Reading has its committed supporters, but if we're to hold on to the latter day fans, then the club has to do more to encourage them, or they will continue to bleed away. It's not just about spending money. It's also about giving cause for optimism.

I'd agree to an extent that Madejski clearly isn't bankrolling the club to the tune he was a few years ago but I'd say it's down to perception about whether we're still spending at comparable levels.

You can say we're not recruiting the 'good young players' from teams like Arsenal but our academy has moved on and grown since that day, to the point where our U18's play in the same league as Arsenal/Chelsea etc and we're producing good quality youngsters of our own. Consider the fact that Church, Karacan, Pearce, McCarthy, HRK, Henry, Siggy have all gained international honours after coming through our academy and there's more promise to come with the likes of Taylor and Obita. The club may have paid Arsenal 400k for Harper in 2000 but now we are spending that money in house. What's more I don't think we had that many household names coming through our ranks before. Sidwell, Shorey and Harper were about the only 3 that really gained attention.

The point that seems to get debated time and time again is the allocation of funds from transfers out. Personally I chose to believe the clubs management when they say that the money we've recouped has been used to make the club financially stable and was needed to keep us going in the long term. I accept other fans opinions that perhaps we should 'gamble' a bit more but in my own opinion this strategy is more sensible and will help the club stabilise.

What's more the club is still spending about as much as it ever did when SJM was bankrolling us. Since relegation we've spent £800k on Hunt, 500k on Armstrong, 2.5m on Mills, 750k on McAnuff, 200k on Rasiak, 250k on Griffin not to mention the loan fee's for Kitson, Little, Bertrand, Griffin, Kizi and the money we've put into wages keeping many players who were on high wages from the PL era such as Cisse, Marek etc.

I totally agree that we need to do more to bring back the fair weather fans but we've got the foundations of a squad that can do that just as easily as any new signing.

Our goalkeeper is an Australian international and we've 2 International U21 keepers in the wings. Our back 4 have all played in the Premier League and have been amongst the best defenders we've ever had at the football club. The midfield has exciting players such as Kebe and McAnuff, combined with players such as Tabb & Karacan who win over the fans with their hard work. It's really only in the striking department where we're lacking right now but even then we've got 3 strikers who've yet to 'peak' who have all shown flashes of immense quality.

All we're missing is that Martin Butler, Dave Kitson, Lee Nogan type of January signing that captures the imagination and I believe Brian has the funds and backing to get that man if he becomes available. It's just a case of remaining patient

[brendywendy]

think the value of the current squad exceeds the 05/06 vintage dont it?

[super darren caskey]

Its all a load of bollocks really isnt it

[Hoop Blah]

think the value of the current squad exceeds the 05/06 vintage dont it?

Resale value based on reputation?

Not sure I'd agree with that, not after selling off so many players in the last 18 months.

Federici would, for some unknown reason, generate a decent bid, as would Long. McAnuff and Kebe would fetch a decent price, but appart from that I can't see anyone of any real value in the squad. All of those, bar Federici, would probably be worth less than their 05/06 counterpart in the summer of 2006 (apart from Kebe perhaps because of Little's age at the time).

[Wimb]

think the value of the current squad exceeds the 05/06 vintage dont it?

Resale value based on reputation?

Not sure I'd agree with that, not after selling off so many players in the last 18 months.

Federici would, for some unknown reason, generate a decent bid, as would Long. McAnuff and Kebe would fetch a decent price, but appart from that I can't see anyone of any real value in the squad. All of those, bar Federici, would probably be worth less than their 05/06 counterpart in the summer of 2006 (apart from Kebe perhaps because of Little's age at the time).

I think the point is that the 05/06 team cost less then this to build and look what it achieved. Obviously you'll be amazingly lucky to find another set of players at such values but it shows you can build a very successful team without spending, just look at Blackpool for example.

The one thing that frustrates me (though it is understandable) is the 'must win now' attitude of some posters and fans. That 05/06 team was born out of the furstrations of 03/04 & 04/05 and why shouldn't we expect the game from Brian's first couple of seasons? Coppell couldn't 'buy' his way to success he had to do it brick by brick over 3 years.

[brendywendy]

think the value of the current squad exceeds the 05/06 vintage dont it?

Resale value based on reputation?

Not sure I'd agree with that, not after selling off so many players in the last 18 months.

Federici would, for some unknown reason, generate a decent bid, as would Long. McAnuff and Kebe would fetch a decent price, but appart from that I can't see anyone of any real value in the squad. All of those, bar Federici, would probably be worth less than their 05/06 counterpart in the summer of 2006 (apart from Kebe perhaps because of Little's age at the time).

cant compare what we got for them after we made them great to what we payed for the current lot.

people are saying we need to spend more to succeed, and the cost of purchase to us for current team is greater than our greatest ever.

and agree with wimb on the 05/06

this season reminds me hugely of the 03/04/05 seasons

[Hoop Blah]

Totally agree on the 05/06 team being the result of a lot of work over the previous few seasons. I've said many a time how it was a team built by Pardew and taken on to that level by Coppell (who I think stumbled across the winning mix to an extent). All the time that side was being built we were improving though, and that's all I ask for my club, to look like they're at least trying to improve if not actually doing it.

[Snowball]

Would it not be fair to say that poor old McDermott is still fire-fighting?

He really needs to know that we've finished selling, or that A and B are going so he can line up alternatives.

He's building a side but he probably thinks he'll lose Kebe, McAnuff, maybe Karacan

I'd be giving Antonio 10-20 minutes cos he's one of very few possibilities for "future-star"

[Svlad Cjelli]

Would it not be fair to say that poor old McDermott is still fire-fighting?

He really needs to know that we've finished selling, or that A and B are going so he can line up alternatives.

He's building a side but he probably thinks he'll lose Kebe, McAnuff, maybe Karacan

I'd be giving Antonio 10-20 minutes cos he's one of very few possibilities for "future-star"

He knows categorically that he doesn't have to sell anyone else.