Fans' Forum

[The Rouge]

I find that a bit defeatist. I already outlined reasons why directionally the two would be different.

If you don't like the metaphor then maybe you would prefer a metaphor of a Union - if you don't feel they represent you then you don't join/leave them.

Re: membership fee - If you wish to command a membership fee then you have to provide some value for that fee and you have to communicate this value well.

Re: understanding who you are representing - you research them. You understand the feeling amongst all your different segments.

[melonhead]

its all just a bit gay rouge, and in my opinion, gayness should be left to the gays

[pearcetom]

I reckon each stand should have its own supporters club. At the end of each season a supporter for each stand will be chosen at random and a fight to the death will take place.....

[Zaretsky]

Poor metaphor, unless perhaps you don't have any allegiance with Reading supporters.

What exactly do you hope a rival organisation would achieve? What would it's aims be?

How would you ensure you were representing all Reading fans? (nobbers, Y26ers, upper west members would all want something different from you and from RFC)

Presumably it would have a board, probably elected, who would make representations to the club and attempt to set up a regular dialogue. Maybe at the management meetings. I expect you would need to charge a membership fee to cover your overheads (any surplus could be don8ted to the club's youth teams, or something) although the thought of paying a fee will dissuade many of your target audience.

Maybe people who don't agree with what you do will start bitching about how bad you are at it, perhaps we'll even see a thread about setting up a third rival group.

There are other ways to build such things. One example would be the peñas in Spain - small supporters clubs organised often by friends and dedicated to varying themes/people/dates/events. Each has its own membership structure but they all belong to a kind of congress of peñas that comes together once or twice a year and can decide things collectively and make representations to the club/nominate people to do this. It's more decentralised than a supporters' trust but incorporates a wider range of people and issues. I'm actually in one as it happens. There are positives and negatives but there are other options out there (even if this isn't the perfect one for Reading).

That said, I propose the formation of the Peña of Jimmy's Socks and would like to officially open the doors for applicants.

With regards, Dave Zaretsky

[Woodcote Royal]

There were only 2 reason for me not joining STAR last season. I didn't require coach travel and I didn't get round to sending my subs or bump into anyone who could take them off my hands.

Well, this thread has given me a 3rd and more important reason.

Whilst there will always be those who like to make mischief just for the sake of it, many contributors here are long standing posters who have, in my view, made some reasonable points that I would have expected someone from STAR to have made a reasonable response to yet, what little we have had has been, at best, dismissive.

Why should views on this forum be dismissed as "noise" unless they are pursued further? Why can't they be merely concerns made on the supporters main discussion forum that can be easily responded to by someone from the supporters' only trust?

To assume that those who have posted their views here are the only ones who have reservations about STAR and are therefore a tiny minority, is naive at best and ignorant at worst.

I don't expect anyone from STAR to agree with all of my views but I DO expect an organisation that is supposed to represent all Reading fans to take them on board in a civil manner rather than seeming to imply that those with concerns should seek election to the STAR board or set up a rival organisation.

I think this will be my last contribution here...........................it seems I have an extras tenner to put towards my flights to Manchester.

[Royal With Cheese]

This is merely a taste of things to come now the Ruski's are in charge.

[RoyalBlue]

For those who mught not have seen it, there is some very interesting information in the Fans Forum thread on the STAR section of HNA. http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=114057&start=20

This adds to the elements of farce.

First of all, it would appear that STAR have to pay to hire the venue for the forum at the Mad Stad. Secondly STAR claim 'even RFC commuications department cannot record it they only take video footage without sound.' . Presumably this is to prevent recordings of what is said leaking out - but have they not heard of lip readers?! Do they search everyone and confiscate all mobile phones and other potential recording equipment prior to admittance?!

It also appears that the RFC Communications Dept who were 'kindly permitted to film by STAR' had the microphone plugged in for at least some of the proceedings

http://www.readingfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10306~2848391,00.html

[General B]

This is merely a taste of things to come now the Ruski's are in charge.

I have been told that certain senior figures have already approached STAR (who have given their provisional approval) about potentially re-branding the home kit to red or possibly black, as blue and white hoops are considered homosexualist in Russia.

I can't tell you Howe I know, as it Wood(-Smith) make my source mad(ejski).

[winchester_royal]

Completely agree with my fellow WR, ignoring HNA is a foolish error made by STAR. Yes we have the odd moron, but there are plenty of intelligent reasonable posters on here that are making excellent points, and it would be very difficult to find a more plentiful supply of thoughtful feedback. There seems to be a real snobbery towards HNA from certain members of the fanbase (one only has to look at some of the things that are said on twitter to realise that) and I'm not sure I understand it tbh. The proportion of helms on here is no greater than that which you'd find in the Jazz Club before a game.

[STAR Liaison]

...

[Reading4eva]

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.

Paula

Hi Paula,

I am not 100% anti-STAR, I just feel that the fans arent represeneted by them well enough. Whats the difference if the original poster, pasted something on this forum, or went home and told his family, which then got round to the local pub and so on and so on. This sort of behaviour loses confidence in the supporters club. Like we have put in another post, we want a supporters club which represent us the fans on a greater scale, someone who is not frightened to talk to the club.

Any suggestions we can give which will improve your service to us, would be much appriciated if they can be considered as if noone keeps paying there £10's, then no STAR, and eventually a break off group will start.

Regards,


Reading4eva


PS What is a WUMer?

[The Rouge]

You really have nothing of substance to add to the debate when you post something as ignorant as this.

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.

Paula

You really do think everything is someone else's fault don't you..?

How about:
1. Don't make the errors from your side in the first place
2. Don't write such an over-dramatic, exaggerated 'its not our fault its yours' PM in the first place. That way, if it does become public it won't leave so much of a nasty taste in peoples' mouths.

[cmonurz]

Paula, I think if you send someone such an arrogant private message as the one cypry received, then you can probably expect it to get re-posted on here, not least if no-one bothers to reply to his subsequent response.

Do you not understand that STAR has a responsibility to the club and its members to make any 'rules' clear before such a meeting?
Do you maintain that Brian is 'very upset' that this summary was posted on the Team board? Remember cypry will be personally meeting McDermott soon.
And do you really think so much of yourself and STAR that someone should show 'genuine remorse' for an honest action to avoid sanction from yourself?

Sorry, but my first suggestion to improve STAR is that it gets a new 'starliaison'.

Edit: and there's no point editing a post after it's been quoted. Take a leaf out of Brian’s book. Only say in public what you are happy to be widely heard.

[TFF]

Whats the difference if the original poster, pasted something on this forum, or went home and told his family, which then got round to the local pub and so on and so on.

Can you honestly not see the difference between idle chat that get's diluted/less reliable as it's passed on and a verbatim written report on a public forum accessible by fans/players/other players/press etc etc?

Undoubtedly Cypry (RIP) should have been told, as a first time visitor, of the (perfectly reasonable) expectation that what's said at forum stays in the forum, and STAR have hopefully learned one or two lessons about communication but otherwise there's been a massive overreaction on here.

[Hoop Blah]

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.

Paula

Interesting reponse, and presumably you were looking at that being a PM hence the rather swift edit!

Paula, I don't know you from Adam, or Steve for that matter, but that's the kind of attutude that clearly comes through in the general STAR reponses on here (from yourself or anyone else from that side of the fence, so I'm not picking on you here).

As others have said, there are plenty of pretty well informed opinions on here and yet it's very rare that these are taken on board or given a worthwhile response. You're obviously someone with the well being of the club and supporters at heart, how about STAR get themselves together a bit and learn from some of the criticisms on here instead of just putting up the shutters and belittle us all as numpties that don't understand your bigger picture.

[Only one Trevor Morley]

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.

Paula

Would privacy extend to use of first names in the open forum?

All I would say is this. Organisations that have a mentality of 'we are doing nothing wrong, you are all wrong, we a right' normally need to get a more independent view of their strengths and weaknesses. If STAR has said something along the lines of ' hands up we didnt make this clear - but in future could we ask the discussions to be confidential' then there would have been more respect for STARs position even if people didnt agree with it. The worst possible response is to indicate its common knowledge that forums are secret and then balme an individual who didnt know that. it just smacks of an organisation looking inward and assuming everyone knows exactly how things work - exactly how does this encourage new people to join STAR

Alas what I think has happened here is that a small group of people who have got to know each other well have got got cuaght up in mutually reinforcing groupthink. As I mentioned before I would actively be interested in making STAR more representative but that needs other people to think like that - be it exisiting people or new people. The question that those who are currently connected with STAR never answer is 'how do you think you could improve and extend your engagement with supporters' If the answer to that is pay £10 and have your say then its a very short sighted approach

[Turns8]

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.

Paula

Would privacy extend to use of first names in the open forum?

^^^^ This...Just further reinforces just how inept STAR are...

[STAR Liaison]

You really have nothing of substance to add to the debate when you post something as ignorant as this.

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.

Paula

You really do think everything is someone else's fault don't you..?

How about:
1. Don't make the errors from your side in the first place
2. Don't write such an over-dramatic, exaggerated 'its not our fault its yours' PM in the first place. That way, if it does become public it won't leave so much of a nasty taste in peoples' mouths.

OK sorry - I am trying too hard.

Not everyone on here is a WUMer but we all know some are and they enjoy the resulting responses. I obviously meant that as a private message and got it wrong.

At the moment I am the only STAR board member willing to even post on here.

That particular post that Mr A quoted was just the final straw for me, as I have no idea who people think we are if not Reading supporters. I am not going to get into the I'm a better supporter than you but I do support Reading FC. Apart from the youngest board members most have supported Reading for decades, so I really can't understand the implication that we are not supporters.

The one thing that should unite us is Reading FC but it seems to divide us as there are so many ideas on what is best for the club.

[Maguire]

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.Paula

Seems to me that, incredibly, you've had a second "is this private is it not?" problem in the space of a week

How upset is Brian today by the way? On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is "Just won the Championship" and 10 is "Cypry posted on HobNob that Gylfi was too expensive"?

[Big Foot]

Thanks for the support Steve, but don't expect them to listen. I hate to say it but I have given up of trying to get them to see logic and with those WUMers leading them on there is no chance. After what started this and the publicity of my response to him I am now having to ask anyone I pm to keep it private, which I always thought was why it was called a private message but there you are.Paula

Seems to me that, incredibly, you've had a second "is this private is it not?" problem in the space of a week

How upset is Brian today by the way? On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is "Just won the Championship" and 10 is "Cypry posted on HobNob that Gylfi was too expensive"?

I'd say he's positively a 9 - he's gutted that it's been revealed Le Fondre will be wearing number 9 next season