Loan Watch 2012-2013

[SCIAG]

Antonio is 22, the same age as Henry. He's performed to about the same level in a lower league. Personally I think it would be best for all three parties if we took the tremendous fee we have been offered, Sheffield Wednesday get their best winger back, and Antonio gets regular secure playing time.

And then gets sold for 3 mill...

So be it. Just like with Simon Cox, if we can't offer a player game time then it is better to get something for him than leave him stagnating because we thought we might have been able to get more. Just slap a sell on fee on him (and maybe a buy back clause if you really aren't sure) and you'll profit from his improvement.

Personally I think a £3m transfer fee for Antonio only looks likely if we get further ridiculous fee inflation. Stephen Hunt went for that and he'd scored a few in the PL and kicked Cech's head in.

[Ian Royal]

Antonio is 22, the same age as Henry. He's performed to about the same level in a lower league. Personally I think it would be best for all three parties if we took the tremendous fee we have been offered, Sheffield Wednesday get their best winger back, and Antonio gets regular secure playing time.

And then gets sold for 3 mill...

Equally, we could keep him, he gets bugger all game time and lets his contract expire to leave us on a free for another club to re-start his career.

You can't keep every player who may one day be good enough to play in your first team. Sometimes players need to leave to take the step to getting to good enough to play at your level.

[Snowball]

Yes, well done Snowball, but in league 1, not at our level. You're always saying how Brian knows best, well doesn't that apply here also? He quite clearly doesn't think that Antonio is good enough to make an impact for us at the moment, why else would he have sent him out on loan and brought Cywka in?

Many possibilities. One being he is looking at Antonio long-term
and Cwyka was an easy-fit stop-gap 4th winger cover going cheap
and was expendable (as it turned out) while Antonio need
developing either for RFC or to make some money as a transfer.

SIMPLES!

So you admit that Brian is looking to sell him, and that he's right to? Good, thank you.

Yeah of course, that's what

while Antonio need developing either for RFC

or

to make some money as a transfer.


means. Too complex for you?

[winchester_royal]

Yes Snowball, your wit and intelligence has left me completely stumped.

[melonhead]

So anyone saying he's been given a chance at RFC to show his worth is talking out of his jacksie

in order to get a decent chance, you need to show you deserve it,& other than showing clear potential for a few yars, hes really failed to do enough.

[Wimb]

So anyone saying he's been given a chance at RFC to show his worth is talking out of his jacksie

in order to get a decent chance, you need to show you deserve it,& other than showing clear potential for a few yars, hes really failed to do enough.

Indeed, hence why Greg Halford, Alan Bennet, Dave Mooney etc never got given a 'chance' For every rough diamond in Shane Long you'll get 5 players that just aren't up to it.

Not saying that Antinio is one of them but I find it amazing how people are suddenly clamouring for him to stay. We should be looking at developing players that have Championship/Premier League experience rather than hoping he can step up 2 levels. Sure it would be nice to have him as an 'insurance' policy if we were to go down but that's not fair on the player and as a club one of best selling points is that we do right by the player.

[Snowball]

Yes Snowball, your wit and intelligence has left me completely stumped.

No, really. Well, all right, then.

[Hoop Blah]

So anyone saying he's been given a chance at RFC to show his worth is talking out of his jacksie

in order to get a decent chance, you need to show you deserve it,& other than showing clear potential for a few yars, hes really failed to do enough.

Totally agree. If 4 years at the club isn't a good enough chance to impress the various managers he's played under then I don't know what is.

Like SCIAG said on the previous page, sometimes there comes a time when you just have to move a player on. I'd say this is the perfect time to do so with Antonio. He's done well enough to command a half decent fee, get himself and good contract and probably have a few clubs to choose from.

The alternative for the club is keep him for another year and possibly lose him for nothing.

[Snowball]

So anyone saying he's been given a chance at RFC to show his worth is talking out of his jacksie

In order to get a decent chance, Long needs to show he deserves it,& other than showing clear potential for a few years, Long's really failed to do enough.

Totally agree. If 4 years at the club isn't a good enough chance for Long to impress the various managers he's played under then I don't know what is.
Like SCIAG said on the previous page, sometimes there comes a time when you just have to move a player on. I'd say this is the perfect time to do so with Long.
He's done well enough to command a half decent fee, get himself and good contract and probably have a few clubs to choose from.
The alternative for the club is keep him for another year and possibly lose him for nothing.

First, this is Antonio's 3rd (not a full) season, not four. He joined at the end of October 2008, a raw kid, age 18

Born 28/03/1990, Antonio at the end of Sheffield Wednesday's season, equated age-wise
to the end of February 2009 for Shane Long, a date by which Shane had scored 12 League Goals from 86 Appearances,
20 (66) = albeit at a higher level but as a striker

Antonio is now 90 League Appearances 53 (37) for 13 League Goals BUT AS A WINGER, NOT A STRIKER

Shane Long

01 (10) 2005-06 03 League Goals
09 (12) 2006-07 02 League Goals
07 (22) 2007-08 03 League Goals
11 (26) 2008-09 09 League Goals
22 (09) 2009-10 06 League Goals
44 (00) 2010-11 21 League Goals


After 4 years 28 (70) = 098 League Appearances for 17 League Goals
After 5 years 50 (96) = 146 League Appearances for 23 League Goals


Sold 2011 for 4 Million - 6.5 Million

00 (01) 2009-10
02 (19) 2010-11
02 (04) 2011-12

[Hoop Blah]

I said 4 years Snowball, and the rest of the stats don't make any difference to how his Reading managers have seen fit to use, or not use, him during the time he's been with it.

[Snowball]

I said 4 years Snowball, and the rest of the stats don't make any difference to how his Reading managers have seen fit to use, or not use, him during the time he's been with it.

4 years? It's 3.5 max.

The stats were simply showing that another raw, non-Academy player needed time and games
and came truly good in his SIXTH full season, a season which began August 7th 2010, when Shane
had had 5 full seasons and was aged 23 Years, 6 Months, a full 1 Year and 4 months older than
Antonio is right now.

We KNOW Antonio is raw, with potential. IMO he could yet be a top, top player, and it could well
be in our interest to tie him to the club, until HE is 23 Years 6 months and beyond (same as Shane).

That could be done with little or no risk, by contracting him with a small wage increase, an extra year
and an option, THEN (if we don't decide to use him in 2012-13) loaning him until January 2013, and
possibly the whole season.

If he develops (as I think he will, in a big way, barring major injury) we then have the choice of a call-back,
OR a bigger fee from Wednesday or Charlton, or maybe (if he has REALLY blossomed, and some big clubs are
interested, just taking a big cash pay-out. The cost to us? NIL.)

[JimmytheJim]

I actually agree with Snowball.

It is too easy to get impatient with young players. Antonio still has plenty of time in which to develop, and his performances as a young winger in a very competitive league seem to be quite promising.

Maybe if we let him go this summer it will turn out to be good business. Maybe we will come to regret it.

For my mind, it makes sense to loan him out for another year to a Championship club (i.e. Wednesday), see how he performs in a higher league, and make a decision on his future at the end of next season.

[Ian Royal]

Maybe if we let him go this summer it will turn out to be good business. Maybe we will come to regret it.

But would he put us in a position to regret it only because of the development he was able to make because he was able to move on and get opportunities elsewhere, when he wouldn't have done if we'd kept him?

[Snowball]

Maybe if we let him go this summer it will turn out to be good business. Maybe we will come to regret it.

But would he put us in a position to regret it only because of the development he was able to make because he
was able to move on and get opportunities elsewhere, when he wouldn't have done if we'd kept him?

Makes no sense, Ian, if we keep him to a new contract with options
and give him a long loan where he GETS his playing opportunities.

Bertrand developed "for Chelsea" by being out on various loans.

Arsenal's Song spent time at Charlton.

etc
etc

[SCIAG]

Song was 19 when he played for Premiership Charlton.

Bertrand was 17 when he first played in the FL and 19 in the Championship.

Antonio is 22.

Loans are a great way to develop young talent, but Antonio isn't that young any more. Clinging on and hoping he develops to a level where we can use him doesn't seem right, given he was fifth choice before promotion.

[Mike Hunt]

Song was 19 when he played for Premiership Charlton.

Bertrand was 17 when he first played in the FL and 19 in the Championship.

Antonio is 22.

Loans are a great way to develop young talent, but Antonio isn't that young any more. Clinging on and hoping he develops to a level where we can use him doesn't seem right, given he was fifth choice before promotion.

Fair point.

[Snowball]

Song was 19 when he played for Premiership Charlton.

Bertrand was 17 when he first played in the FL and 19 in the Championship.

Antonio is 22.

Loans are a great way to develop young talent, but Antonio isn't that young any more. Clinging on and hoping he develops to a level where we can use him doesn't seem right, given he was fifth choice before promotion.

Fair point.

Antonio = Long = not Academy-trained so extra-raw and a (relatively) late developer.


Take note how many goals the STRIKER Shane Long had got after 4 seasons and 5 seasons.

How much did he end up being worth?


Mark my words, Antonio is better than a lot of you think.

[sandman]

[JimmytheJim]

Song was 19 when he played for Premiership Charlton.

Bertrand was 17 when he first played in the FL and 19 in the Championship.

Antonio is 22.

Loans are a great way to develop young talent, but Antonio isn't that young any more. Clinging on and hoping he develops to a level where we can use him doesn't seem right, given he was fifth choice before promotion.

Fair point.

What about Ian Wright, Kevin Doyle, Grant Holt, any number of players whose careers bloom ever so slightly later?

Fans are so impatient with players. What's the risk in keeping an eye on Antonio for another year before making a judgement on whether or not to offload him? It's not like there's going to be a shortage of suitors...

[Platypuss]

Song was 19 when he played for Premiership Charlton.

Bertrand was 17 when he first played in the FL and 19 in the Championship.

Antonio is 22.

Loans are a great way to develop young talent, but Antonio isn't that young any more. Clinging on and hoping he develops to a level where we can use him doesn't seem right, given he was fifth choice before promotion.

Fair point.

What about Ian Wright, Kevin Doyle, Grant Holt, any number of players whose careers bloom ever so slightly later?

Fans are so impatient with players. What's the risk in keeping an eye on Antonio for another year before making a judgement on whether or not to offload him? It's not like there's going to be a shortage of suitors...

The max 25 player squad rule?