New Signings ?

[Gus the teenage cow]

has anyone got access to the books, or has the madman cooked them so he can add to his art collection?

[Mr Controversial]

You forgot quite a few mate, including backroom staff.
The parachute payments would have been a good thing to include as well. There are so many other things you would have to include to get a good idea of the amount of profit/loss the club has made since relegation. We don't have the exact numbers for wages either, just speculation. There's also season ticket sales, money lost from skysports televised games, general stadium maintenance, total wages of backroom staff, loan repayments to the bank, water, electric, I could go on. Its impossible to tell how much money has been lost or gained unless you have ALL the figures in front of you. We just have to trust the chairman's view on our financial situation.

I wasn't looking to make a total comparison of income vs outgoings, just specifically in the case of salaries and transfer funds as this, to me at least, seems the most pertinent area of discussion.

[Row Z Royal]

You forgot quite a few mate, including backroom staff.
The parachute payments would have been a good thing to include as well. There are so many other things you would have to include to get a good idea of the amount of profit/loss the club has made since relegation. We don't have the exact numbers for wages either, just speculation. There's also season ticket sales, money lost from skysports televised games, general stadium maintenance, total wages of backroom staff, loan repayments to the bank, water, electric, I could go on. Its impossible to tell how much money has been lost or gained unless you have ALL the figures in front of you. We just have to trust the chairman's view on our financial situation.

I wasn't looking to make a total comparison of income vs outgoings, just specifically in the case of salaries and transfer funds as this, to me at least, seems the most pertinent area of discussion.

You left out some rather pertinent 'facts', however.

[Royal Rother]

Firstly, you only include players bought this summer, but sales over the past two (and salary reductions over 3! - but no note of pay rises over the same time)

You do not take in to account any additional revenue or losses either.

In essence, your post is a tad crap.

to be fair he's not a million miles away from the truth, I'd love to say our net profit made over the last 3 seasons, on top of the huge net profit in terms of transfers in versus transfers out we have got loads of premier league tv money and of course the parachute payments last year, i don't think we're far off a 100 million profit over the last three years. that's all well and good and no doubt the balance sheets look wonderful and the mad man is adding some nice pieces to his art collection but all the while we are becoming a very mediocre football team.

Holy shit! Really?







You fcuking numpty!!

[Hoop Blah]

We don't have the exact numbers for wages either, just speculation.

We have the ACTUAL figures from the recorded clubs accounts for the years preceeding relegation. They are factual which give you an idea of the cost base and include all staff, not just the players.

From that the club slashed the wage bill by approximately 40% when we got relegated.

[Royal Rother]

Here's a reply I posted to a similar question a couple of months ago.

23 League games last season, average crowd 19,000, average ticket price £20 generates less than £9m income. Add in say £3m from Sky money, £1m of sundry revenues gives £13m.

Doyle and Hunt were supposed to be on circa £20k pw = £2.5m (incl Employers NIC costs)

If we had another 18 players who could be considered 1st team squad on an average of £7k pw that would give another £6.7m.

Fringe / young players may have taken a conservative net (after loan contributions) £1m.

Coppell and the coaching staff would have taken approx £2m I guess.

Other administrative wages costs can reasonably be estimated as £2m.

It is safe to assume that the other costs of running the club would have been an absolute minimum of £10m (as shown above they were in 2008 17.4, 2007 13.9, 2006 8.2, 2005 6.9, 2004 6.0)

So, adding up the above we have:

Income of £13m.
Total Wages of £14.2m.
Other costs of £10m.

Oh, look, a loss of £11m - good job we had that parachute payment isn't it?

Player trading made us a healthy profit but it would be sensible if that were left in the coffers for steady investment should it be required in the next 2 or 3 years. Some might prefer us to have blown it all last season, or indeed this close season, but that would be a gamble and it is definitely better to keep it in reserve for emergencies. JM has taken NOTHING out for many years if I recall, so no reason to think he will have started now.

I have no special knowledge of RFC but I think these numbers are reasonable and might just help open a few eyes - (hang on a sec, who am I kidding?). Anyway, do correct me if I've got something obviously wrong.

Anyway I'm sure the new manager will respect the fact that he can have a decent budget for new players but that will have to come from player sales - sensible management of a stable business.

Edit: Looking at this afresh I do suspect I have been a little generous on the income and a little light on the costs.

[Barry the bird boggler]

Summary of our transfer activity inwards in this window so far

[Ian Royal]

I'll say it again. Transfer ins and outs since 2003 = +£5m (roughly [pre Shunt & Bikey leaving that is])

That means before we were relegated we must have been close to £15m down on transfers. Thats in about 5 years.

So the club are sticking some of the transfer money back into the club where it came from in the first place. Big deal, it fills a hole and makes us ore healthy. It's the wages that kill a club, not the transfer fees.

[PEARCEY]

Its another well-observed and well written piece Rother. No doubt about it. Its difficult to argue against. It all makes good sense and good business practise. The trouble is sometimes surely any business at some stage has to be brave and take one or two chances otherwise you will see others pass you by as you slowly descend the pecking order in club football.
Constantly being prudent will certainly guarantee the status of the club but how much more than that will it offer? The club were not so prudent ten years ago when trying to get out of the lower divisions. The money Tommy Burns was given bears favourable comparison with what his successors have spent in recent years(especially when you compare incoming monies from transfer fees). So it appears Mr Mad recognised that player investment was necessary back then for the club to move forward but is more reticent now.
Not knocking your analysis. It seems spot on but just sometimes it would be nice to see the hand-brake released a little.

[brendywendy]

aaahhhh, but ..........

where has all the money gone?




eh? eh?

[URZZ]

aaahhhh, but ..........

where has all the money gone?




eh? eh?

Madejski's pocket.

We are in desperation for a forward, possibly two. A winger that can cross and take good set pieces, and a centre back.

[brendywendy]

What about the two sesons at £50 million per season.

We had one of the lowest wage bills in the Premiership. The smallest squad if you ignore academy type players and we spent about £6.5million over two seasons.

SDR reckons that no doube there would have been a lot of inter company transfers to lose that lot so that the Madman could say we werer skint.

The guy is a crooooooooooooooooooooooo

Or to be polite a rip off merchant.

LOL at SDR believing the tabloid hype of prem football



and i think the 50 Million we earn from going up to the "promised land"included the prize money for winning the championship, TV money while up, and 3 years of parachute money


also please see details of our 30+ Million wage bill while up there etc

HTH

[brendywendy]

aaahhhh, but ..........

where has all the money gone?





eh? eh?

Madejski's pocket.

We are in desperation for a forward, possibly two. A winger that can cross and take good set pieces, and a centre back.

havent hammond and rodgers been saying pretty much all summer that they are trying to bring in 1 or two-or three new players?
over and over again, mainly about a striker, but also hints about other positions


by all means moan if they let you down then , but not before then, the window is a finite period of time, but we do have yuntil it closes you know

[URZZ]

aaahhhh, but ..........

where has all the money gone?





eh? eh?

Madejski's pocket.

We are in desperation for a forward, possibly two. A winger that can cross and take good set pieces, and a centre back.

havent hammond and rodgers been saying pretty much all summer that they are trying to bring in 1 or two-or three new players?
over and over again, mainly about a striker, but also hints about other positions


by all means moan if they let you down then , but not before then, the window is a finite period of time, but we do have yuntil it closes you know

I don't totally disagree, but saying is different to doing, I hope they do stop the moaning fans and get the players but...

Until then we have 3 games ahead of us, and IMO, the team we have at the moment couldn't hit a barn door with a machine gun.

[Plymouth_Royal]

We don't have the exact numbers for wages either, just speculation.

We have the ACTUAL figures from the recorded clubs accounts for the years preceeding relegation. They are factual which give you an idea of the cost base and include all staff, not just the players.

From that the club slashed the wage bill by approximately 40% when we got relegated.

Ah, I did not know that. Where were they published?

[brendywendy]

on here a million times

but most importantly at companys house

[Royal Rother]

Its another well-observed and well written piece Rother. No doubt about it. Its difficult to argue against. It all makes good sense and good business practise. The trouble is sometimes surely any business at some stage has to be brave and take one or two chances otherwise you will see others pass you by as you slowly descend the pecking order in club football.
Constantly being prudent will certainly guarantee the status of the club but how much more than that will it offer? The club were not so prudent ten years ago when trying to get out of the lower divisions. The money Tommy Burns was given bears favourable comparison with what his successors have spent in recent years(especially when you compare incoming monies from transfer fees). So it appears Mr Mad recognised that player investment was necessary back then for the club to move forward but is more reticent now.
Not knocking your analysis. It seems spot on but just sometimes it would be nice to see the hand-brake released a little.

Thanks.

I think Madejski learnt a lot from the Burns episode.

In sanctioning a mass spending spree he went completely against his principles but he was caught up in the hype of a new high profile manager and felt he had to go along with his demands.

It didn't work and he vowed not to deviate from his business principles again.

[SteveRoyal]

Expect 3 signings on transfer deadline day.

[Royal Rother]

Here's a reply I posted to a similar question a couple of months ago.

23 League games last season, average crowd 19,000, average ticket price £20 generates less than £9m income. Add in say £3m from Sky money, £1m of sundry revenues gives £13m.

Doyle and Hunt were supposed to be on circa £20k pw = £2.5m (incl Employers NIC costs)

If we had another 18 players who could be considered 1st team squad on an average of £7k pw that would give another £6.7m.

Fringe / young players may have taken a conservative net (after loan contributions) £1m.

Coppell and the coaching staff would have taken approx £2m I guess.

Other administrative wages costs can reasonably be estimated as £2m.

It is safe to assume that the other costs of running the club would have been an absolute minimum of £10m (as shown above they were in 2008 17.4, 2007 13.9, 2006 8.2, 2005 6.9, 2004 6.0)

So, adding up the above we have:

Income of £13m.
Total Wages of £14.2m.
Other costs of £10m.

Oh, look, a loss of £11m - good job we had that parachute payment isn't it?

Player trading made us a healthy profit but it would be sensible if that were left in the coffers for steady investment should it be required in the next 2 or 3 years. Some might prefer us to have blown it all last season, or indeed this close season, but that would be a gamble and it is definitely better to keep it in reserve for emergencies. JM has taken NOTHING out for many years if I recall, so no reason to think he will have started now.

I have no special knowledge of RFC but I think these numbers are reasonable and might just help open a few eyes - (hang on a sec, who am I kidding?). Anyway, do correct me if I've got something obviously wrong.

Anyway I'm sure the new manager will respect the fact that he can have a decent budget for new players but that will have to come from player sales - sensible management of a stable business.

Edit: Looking at this afresh I do suspect I have been a little generous on the income and a little light on the costs.

Just realised I forgot about Depreciation - That's another £7m onto the costs!!

[Blue and White Toucan]

Are we much different terms of support, infastucture, fan base etc etc to Hull City??

I just ask the question as after there first season in the Prem they have added Hunt for £3million ish and now seem to be bidding £12million for a player!?!?!?!

I haven't researched it before someone comes in with facts but on the face of it we do really seem to lack any ambition, and to be honest we always have!!!!

We do it the 'Reading way'