Generic clubs in financial crisis Thread

[The whole year inn]

Court date has now been set; the hearing is now on Monday March 1st.

Still have to produce the financial statement by next Wednesday though.

It is all irrelevant - the Premier League will make sure one of its clubs do not fold.

Anyone that thinks Portsmouth will fold really does not know what the Premiership is all about

Court cases - empty rhetoric put on for show

[Wax Jacket]

Ok so explain by what mechanism they'll allow Pompey not to fold

[Ian Royal]

Yeah, the PL doesn't just have tens of millions of pounds sitting around it can give to Pompey to pay off their debts and make them solvent.

The parachute payment idea is not only pissing in the wind, but is quite clearly borrowing from tomorrow so they just go bust in the FL. As such the FA & FL should have something to say about it. I hope a few other clubs in the PL might as well.

[Dirk Gently]

Yeah, the PL doesn't just have tens of millions of pounds sitting around it can give to Pompey to pay off their debts and make them solvent.

The parachute payment idea is not only pissing in the wind, but is quite clearly borrowing from tomorrow so they just go bust in the FL. As such the FA & FL should have something to say about it. I hope a few other clubs in the PL might as well.

It could only happen if it was put to a special vote of the PL clubs - there's no provision in the PL's rules for it to happen without one. Whether 14 clubs would vote in favour remains to be seen - and at least 4 or 5 at the bottom would probably be delighted to have one of the relegation places sewn up already.

[Ian Royal]

The question will surely be, will the potential threat to PL income (from damage to the brand by Pompey going bust) panic enough of the teams in serious debt who might otherwise benefit from Pompey disappearing, into agreeing to support them.

West Ham, Man Utd, Arsenal & Wolves seem to be the teams that look like suffering the worst if (in terms of title / Champions League / relegation problems) if Pompey go. So you'd have to assume they'd support a bid to help Pompey.

Whereas it would seem to help Chelsea, Liverpool, Burnley & Spurs significantly.

[Skyline]

Work colleague of mine is a Cambridge United fan and he's getting seriously worried about Chester going bust and all their games being wiped from the records this season. Cambridge have picked up 6 points from Chester, and if they lose those (and taking other teams lost points into account) they'll only be four points above the drop zone. He reckons with their current squad that could easily be close enough for them to get caught by some of the teams below them and get them relegated.

Trouble is for Cambridge, if they do that their crowds (which are currently pretty healthy for a Conference club) will drop and they might no longer be able to afford the rent on the Abbey Stadium (which is owned by a former director who bought it in what was described to me as an 'interesting' deal involving the Chairman at the time).

[andrew1957]

On one of the Pompey threads it said that Fratton Park could not be sued for anything than football so could not be developed due to planning restrictions. Not sure if this is the case or not but would increase the likelihood of a new club forming out of the ashes.

[ankeny]

Court date has now been set; the hearing is now on Monday March 1st.

Still have to produce the financial statement by next Wednesday though.

It is all irrelevant - the Premier League will make sure one of its clubs do not fold.

Anyone that thinks Portsmouth will fold really does not know what the Premiership is all about

Court cases - empty rhetoric put on for show

Agreed,and its scandalous,who should be leading the pack but Gold,whose west ham would benifit less if they fold.Only in football do this happen,if any of you run a company stop paying your taxes and see if competitors bail you out when the tax man comes knocking.Portsmouth are a basket case,makes you glad we got Madjeski

[Sun Tzu]

On one of the Pompey threads it said that Fratton Park could not be sued for anything than football so could not be developed due to planning restrictions. Not sure if this is the case or not but would increase the likelihood of a new club forming out of the ashes.

There may be restrictive covenants on the land but they could be lifted. I doubt planning regulations would be an issue seeing as Pompey have already seen many plans to relocate been put forward and I have no doubt part of those foresaw a redevelopment of the land occupied by Fratton Park. I would think any council would welcome a football ground in a residential / commercial area being relocated as it would remove all the massive traffic and anti social behaviour problems.

[Pseud O'Nym]

There may be restrictive covenants on the land but they could be lifted. I doubt planning regulations would be an issue seeing as Pompey have already seen many plans to relocate been put forward and I have no doubt part of those foresaw a redevelopment of the land occupied by Fratton Park. I would think any council would welcome a football ground in a residential / commercial area being relocated as it would remove all the massive traffic and anti social behaviour problems.

Such a covenant was of course lifted to allow the redevelopment of Plough Lane. It's not certain though; back in the '70s the, strongly Quaker, DEC were forced to include a pub in their King's Road offices by a very ancient covenant.

[bobbybottler]

On one of the Pompey threads it said that Fratton Park could not be sued for anything than football so could not be developed due to planning restrictions. Not sure if this is the case or not but would increase the likelihood of a new club forming out of the ashes.

It's not the case. It's private land and there are no restrictive covenants on it.

If Portsmouth FC moves, the site of Fratton Park (which I understand Chanrai has as security against his loans to Portsmouth FC) can be redeveloped for low-level housing (i.e. two stories or less), which would be in keeping with the general low-level housing in the Fratton / north Southsea area. I'm not clear what the City Of Portsmouth ten year planners have in mind if the club ceases to exist though.

Interestingly the land around is designated as industrial use only and is still owned by Gaydamak, who is still owed £28m by Portsmouth.

All a bit messy really.

Court date has now been set; the hearing is now on Monday March 1st.

Still have to produce the financial statement by next Wednesday though.

It is all irrelevant - the Premier League will make sure one of its clubs do not fold.

Anyone that thinks Portsmouth will fold really does not know what the Premiership is all about

Court cases - empty rhetoric put on for show

I don't get this post though - TWYI I completely understand your cynicism but this is what HMRC have been waiting for, they have Portsmouth by the short and curlies, they've given them a short period of grace, I do not understand what irresistible pressures will be put upon HMRC not to follow through with a liquidation of Portsmouth in March.

[exileinleeds]

I heard someone interviewed about the ownership of FP. It stated there is a covenant on the ground- it can only be used for a sporting arena- unless an alternative site is found.
Gaydar still owns all the land around FP that could be developed. If PFC goes into liquidation, it is possible that Gaydar could make an offer for the ground for about £3.50 (bloody useless to anyone else), and build his new housing/shops/leisure/office complex. The new Portsmouth AFC or whatever, could be given a field and shack somewhere out in the sticks- suitable for 10th div football or whatever a bust club gets relegated to.

[Terminal Boardom]

On one of the Pompey threads it said that Fratton Park could not be sued for anything than football so could not be developed due to planning restrictions. Not sure if this is the case or not but would increase the likelihood of a new club forming out of the ashes.

There may be restrictive covenants on the land but they could be lifted. I doubt planning regulations would be an issue seeing as Pompey have already seen many plans to relocate been put forward and I have no doubt part of those foresaw a redevelopment of the land occupied by Fratton Park. I would think any council would welcome a football ground in a residential / commercial area being relocated as it would remove all the massive traffic and anti social behaviour problems.

But would it remove massive traffic problems? Fratton Park gets used for football 19 or so times a year. 200 plus houses would generate traffic 365 days per year. When Oxford were working on moving from The Manor, the local residents were not too happy with the prospect as they knew that disruption to their everyday lives would increase.

Local Authorities have much to answer for. There are plenty of examples both good and bad where realtionships between clubs and Councils. Look at the likes of Millwall, Northampton Town and Huddersfield Town to name 3. Add Reading to the list as well! All with new stadia which serve the community. The flip side points towards Brighton, Wimbledon and, of course, Portsmouth. There has to be a collective will for football clubs to prosper and progress.

[Royal Rother]

This whole idea of advancing Portsmouth £11m is completely ridiculous and would surely set an incredibly dangerous precedent.

They need £11m because they have been appallingly run and have overspent on players - that's the bottom line.

Burnley on the other hand have tried to do things on a tight budget, in a responsible fashion and, when Coyle said he wanted to spend a pile on new players to make it more likley they would stay up, was told no, which is pretty much why he left.

Maybe Burnley should have turned round to Scudamore and pleaded a case for having the their next trenche of money paid in advance so they could have given it to Coyle to spend.

There is of course zero chance that the sensibly run Burnley would have succeeded in such an approach but they would certainly have been more deserving of special treatment than Portsmouth.

It can't be allowed to happen.

If by some weird and warped reasoning it does happen I am confident that the gradual dribble of fans away from the Premier League offering would sharply accelerate next year.

[Sun Tzu]

On one of the Pompey threads it said that Fratton Park could not be sued for anything than football so could not be developed due to planning restrictions. Not sure if this is the case or not but would increase the likelihood of a new club forming out of the ashes.

There may be restrictive covenants on the land but they could be lifted. I doubt planning regulations would be an issue seeing as Pompey have already seen many plans to relocate been put forward and I have no doubt part of those foresaw a redevelopment of the land occupied by Fratton Park. I would think any council would welcome a football ground in a residential / commercial area being relocated as it would remove all the massive traffic and anti social behaviour problems.

But would it remove massive traffic problems? Fratton Park gets used for football 19 or so times a year. 200 plus houses would generate traffic 365 days per year. When Oxford were working on moving from The Manor, the local residents were not too happy with the prospect as they knew that disruption to their everyday lives would increase.

I'd have thought that 18,000 people 20 times a year versus maybe 400 people on a daily basis has a fairly obvious answer. Especially if you also remove all the anti social behaviour that inevitably associates itself with large crowds (i used to live right next to a football ground so have experienced the urinating in the garden, rubbish and noise plus having to park my car miles away all day on Saturday and no one being able to get to my house on match days.
Plus any new development would have to consider improving the access routes rather than aas currently traffic all just using the existing and unsuitable routes to Fratton Park.

[Terminal Boardom]

But would it remove massive traffic problems? Fratton Park gets used for football 19 or so times a year. 200 plus houses would generate traffic 365 days per year. When Oxford were working on moving from The Manor, the local residents were not too happy with the prospect as they knew that disruption to their everyday lives would increase.

I'd have thought that 18,000 people 20 times a year versus maybe 400 people on a daily basis has a fairly obvious answer. Especially if you also remove all the anti social behaviour that inevitably associates itself with large crowds (i used to live right next to a football ground so have experienced the urinating in the garden, rubbish and noise plus having to park my car miles away all day on Saturday and no one being able to get to my house on match days.
Plus any new development would have to consider improving the access routes rather than aas currently traffic all just using the existing and unsuitable routes to Fratton Park.

I am making the statement on what I have read. Thankfully, I have never lived on the doorstep of a football ground - the closest I did live was in Water Rd. Considering we are talking about Portsmouth (Stereotype alert) anyone living in any of the properties that may be built on FP are hardly likely to be middle class banker types...

[buzzby]

But would it remove massive traffic problems? Fratton Park gets used for football 19 or so times a year. 200 plus houses would generate traffic 365 days per year. When Oxford were working on moving from The Manor, the local residents were not too happy with the prospect as they knew that disruption to their everyday lives would increase.

I'd have thought that 18,000 people 20 times a year versus maybe 400 people on a daily basis has a fairly obvious answer. Especially if you also remove all the anti social behaviour that inevitably associates itself with large crowds (i used to live right next to a football ground so have experienced the urinating in the garden, rubbish and noise plus having to park my car miles away all day on Saturday and no one being able to get to my house on match days.
Plus any new development would have to consider improving the access routes rather than aas currently traffic all just using the existing and unsuitable routes to Fratton Park.

I am making the statement on what I have read. Thankfully, I have never lived on the doorstep of a football ground - the closest I did live was in Water Rd. Considering we are talking about Portsmouth (Stereotype alert) anyone living in any of the properties that may be built on FP are hardly likely to be middle class banker types...

I can speak from 1st hand experience that you avoid Portsmouth on match days, the traffic comes to a stand still due to Portsmouth being an island.

[Wax Jacket]

yep have had to drive back along the M27 a few times of an evening k.o.

[TBM]

If the Pompey players "love the club" as much as they keep saying, then why dont they offer to go without a weeks wages.....now i know they shouldn't suffer their pay cheque but it would mean they all have a better chance of being at the club for the rest of the season.

I've heard their wage bill is around £2m a month so £500k is a hell of alot of money to save.

[Terminal Boardom]

And Reading suffers from only having 2 bridges across the Thames. Traffic will always be an issue regardless of whether there is a football club involved or not.